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After length on peg


Magnus Nedregard
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Recently I've done some interesting research on the influence of the free end of the string, I mean the part of the string you put through the hole in the peg, and that is left free from the tension that the rest of the string is subject to.

I've found that the length of this part of the string has an interesting influence on the higher register on the A string, and I think this is overlooked by even reputable luthiers.

It should be tuned, according to my research, to 1345 Hz when flipped by your finger nail, and that gives an after length at about 4,3 mm with most string brands.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
ctviolin

What exactly do you mean, the string coming out of the far end of the stringhole of the peg, that just sits there lose?

Exactely.

quote:


Either way, I'm not immediately credulous.

Well, I think you should study this further before you make such comments. Don't you have ears?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
magnus nedregard

It should be tuned, according to my research, to 1345 Hz when flipped by your finger nail, and that gives an after length at about 4,3 mm with most string brands.

I tried this a while back with Evah Pirazzi strings and found that they rapidly deteriorate and the length has to be decreased from 4.3mm to almost 3.5mm within a couple of weeks, especially after some heavy playing.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
magnus nedregard

quote:


Originally posted by:
eric1514
Is that with

synthetic core or gut? I'm asking because with my Eudoxas, 1346 Hz

works better. Eric

That's not because of your Eudoxas Eric,

I'll bet you have a pernambuco tailpiece, don't you?

I don't have a tailpiece! Do you think that's a problem?

Eric

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quote:


Originally posted by:
ctviolin

"Well, I think you should study this further before you make such comments. Don't you have ears?"

It's a comment Magnus - in a discussion.

No need to be rude because I'm questioning you is there?

Seems to be a lot of it going around lately.

Craig, I think you've been "whooshed"!

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The description of this process is grossly incomplete. The best results are obtained by gluing a small piece of paper (I like to use the debris from a paper punch) to each protruding string end to give a larger radiating surface. Make sure they are oriented horizontally when viewed from the front so the sound is "aimed" out the open top of the pegbox.

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I'm doing this over the internet. Just send me your name and your credit card info, or cash, if you wish. For $150 I psychically tune ALL the specifities to analagous zones of tonal superfluity, not just this one. I cover tuning parts you didn't even know were there, because they reside in other dimensions. Then I do a psychic clean and polish, and throw in a psychic string change.

The best thing is that you don't have to send me the violin--I do it by energy transmissions over the aether. If you hear a difference and your violin gets better, that's what I did, if you don't hear it, it's your fault--I'm keeping the money, you deaf cow. Some of you have already had free demos of this done on your violins, and I'd appreaciate a good reference here, and a contribution, if you think you've benefitted and appreciate the help. However, if you think someone's been messing with your violin psychically and it's sounding worse, that's not me, that's my competition, and I hope you go after them: in a civilized world I shouldn't have to say this, but this is a patented, trademarked, registered, certified, first-class process.

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"you have to take into account wind velocity also and the temperature within 3 mm. of the string end, and if one of the threads is loose, otherwise the conclusions will be useless"

Sorry to ignore your post, saintjohnbarlycorn, apparently you had it right from the start...

By the way is that THE John Barleycorn? I think I knew you when I was in high school.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
David Burgess

The description of this process is grossly incomplete. The best results are obtained by gluing a small piece of paper (I like to use the debris from a paper punch) to each protruding string end to give a larger radiating surface. Make sure they are oriented horizontally when viewed from the front so the sound is "aimed" out the open top of the pegbox.

This is incorrect,

In my opinion this should work as an absorber not radiator,since the 1345HZ falls in the "nasal range".

If anything you should orient the paper parallel with the pegwalls to achieve "phase cancellation"

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quote:


Originally posted by:
gabi

In my opinion this should work as an absorber not radiator,since the 1345HZ falls in the "nasal range".

If anything you should orient the paper parallel with the pegwalls to achieve "phase cancellation"

Sorry, but it's not quite that simple. While 1345HZ is often considered the "nasal" range, in this case the effect is altered by proximity to the nose.

Haven't you ever seen a good player flare their nostrils at times, and heard the change in tone color?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
David Burgess

quote:


Originally posted by:
gabi

In my opinion this should work as an absorber not radiator,since the 1345HZ falls in the "nasal range".

If anything you should orient the paper parallel with the pegwalls to achieve "phase cancellation"

Sorry, but it's not quite that simple. While 1345HZ is often considered the "nasal" range, in this case the effect is altered by proximity to the nose.

Haven't you ever seen a good player flare their nostrils at times, and heard the change in tone color?

Flaring the nostrils is done for different purposes,is usually preceding a strong sniff before,or along, a string attack.That induces a white noise(or pink depending on the degree of opening)and have a strong influence on the perceived transients.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
gabi

Flaring the nostrils is done for different purposes,is usually preceding a strong sniff before,or along, a string attack.That induces a white noise(or pink depending on the degree of opening)and have a strong influence on the perceived transients.

I'm familiar with that technique, but not in support of it because of the deleterious results of inadvertent "reverse sniffing" when players are first learning.

Hasn't it largely been replaced by "stage stomping", a technique borrowed from TV wrestlers who use it to accentuate a punch or body slam?

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quote:


Originally posted by:
David Burgess

quote:


Originally posted by:
gabi

Flaring the nostrils is done for different purposes,is usually preceding a strong sniff before,or along, a string attack.That induces a white noise(or pink depending on the degree of opening)and have a strong influence on the perceived transients.

I'm familiar with that technique, but not in support of it because of the deleterious results of inadvertent "reverse sniffing" when players are first learning.

Hasn't it largely been replaced by "stage stomping", a technique borrowed from TV wrestlers who use it to accentuate a punch or body slam?

Yes "stage stomping"could be even more effective,

The problem though is they don't make shoes like they use to.Is very hard nowdays to find shoes with the right "tonal density".It appears that the golden period of shoe making is long gone,along with its secrets.

Another problem is the use of the method in studio recording,where some recording engineers nazis totally forbid it.

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Sorry for butting into the conversation here Magnus.

I just Googled to recheck current FFT status.

Ho Hum! Same old- Same old!

Jimbow

"The fast Fourier transform (FFT) is a discrete Fourier transform algorithm which reduces the number of computations needed for points from to , where lg is the base-2 logarithm. If the function to be transformed is not harmonically related to the sampling frequency, the response of an FFT looks like a sinc function (although the integrated power is still correct). Aliasing (leakage) can be reduced by apodization using a tapering function. However, aliasing reduction is at the expense of broadening the spectral response.

FFTs were first discussed by Cooley and Tukey (1965), although Gauss had actually described the critical factorization step as early as 1805 (Bergland 1969, Strang 1993). A discrete Fourier transform can be computed using an FFT by means of the Danielson-Lanczos lemma if the number of points is a power of two. If the number of points is not a power of two, a transform can be performed on sets of points corresponding to the prime factors of which is slightly degraded in speed. An efficient real Fourier transform algorithm or a fast Hartley transform (Bracewell 1999) gives a further increase in speed by approximately a factor of two. Base-4 and base-8 fast Fourier transforms use optimized code, and can be 20-30% faster than base-2 fast Fourier transforms. prime factorization is slow when the factors are large, but discrete Fourier transforms can be made fast for , 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 11, 13, and 16 using the Winograd transform algorithm (Press et al. 1992, pp. 412-413, Arndt).

Fast Fourier transform algorithms generally fall into two classes: decimation in time, and decimation in frequency. The Cooley-Tukey FFT algorithm first rearranges the input elements in bit-reversed order, then builds the output transform (decimation in time). The basic idea is to break up a transform of length into two transforms of length using the identity sometimes called the Danielson-Lanczos lemma. The easiest way to visualize this procedure is perhaps via the Fourier matrix.

The Sande-Tukey algorithm (Stoer and Bulirsch 1980) first transforms, then rearranges the output values (decimation in frequency)."

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Of course, a major problem you may encounter in the tuning of the loose string ends, is the limited space in the pegbox. Especially Davids paper gluing might be troublesome. That's why I now make a small adjustment on the pegbox on any instrument that comes into my shop, and it goes without saying that's how I make new isntruments too.

The musicians never notice the minor visual change at all. But do they notice the sound difference when I show them on my computer? You bet!

correctscroll.jpg

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