Characteristic of a fine violin?

[pigcat]

Hi there folks!

I've just came across this question after some while of choosing

some good violins...Here's what I've discovered:

I've tried some violins that price around $4k~$6k,

which sounds mellow and warm, but sound wonderfully opened

when play in big room/venue. I've play them in medium size church,

with lots of echo. The violin seems to opened up and sounds

brilliant in the church, which I had the violin played by my friend

and I auditioned it. Also I noticed the sound is quite mellow and

soft under ear, but rings the ear when listen in audience

perspective.

I'd be happy if anyone who has tried a real Strad or Guarneri or

any fine violins share their opinions on how it sounds under ear

and in audience perspective (closely), in a small room or in a

concert hall...I'm really curious cause I've watch some video where

a real Strad is being played in an interview, interestingly the

sound not as bright and opened, and lack of the silvery tone where

often found in proper recordings. By the way the interview is held

in a small room...

Thanks in advanced!

[Magnus Nedregard]

(I haven't played many Strads or other cremonese instruments, and I am not a player, so this is based upon a relatively limited experience).The experience of playing an old cremonese may be different from an instrument to another, even by same maker. But they have some things in common to me; very rich sound under the ear, but at the same time it seems very clean. Other instruments seem sharper and brighter but less rich when compared, less interesting and deep, if you want. On the best cremonese you get a sensation you stand in a cathedral playing, svitch to a (good) modern instrument and you'd notice how small it's sound feels.

To the listener I'd say the difference is much less obvious. Generally. Indeed there are some instruments who work better in a hall than in small room. Unfortunately, it is very hard to describe the sound of instruments and also it isn't right to generalize things. However I'm sure some interesting things will come up here...

[MANFIO]

I think a fine violin is much more important for the player than for the audience.

A fine violin will have a good dynamic range, the player will be able to play passages in ffffff and ppppp.

A fine violin will make the life of the player easy, he will play with less effort, allowing him to think only in the interpretation of the music.

The sound must be good in upper and lower positions (only very good instruments will sound good up in the 7th position on the G string, it's an acid test for a violin, soloists starts testing violins in this region, in general. On normal instruments you will find a rasped sound there).

The response is quite quick.

The notion of what is fine may differ for soloists, orchestra players and chamber musicians.

[Fellow]

Hi Pigcat,

Is your ( $4k-$6k) a modern maker's instrument? There is big difference in age (400 years old vs most 5 years old). Modern instruments do not open up easily, I believe it would take years than months.

I do not have experience in playing a real Strad or Cremonese, or modern Italians, so I cannot offer

any thought on this aspect.

My point is that they should sound differently, good or bad, but made of different ages material?

[Michael Darnton]

In my opinion, the sound itself has a minor role to play, after several more concrete things: speed of response, impact and separation of individual notes, lack of really bad notes (some lack of even-ness is desirable), carrying power (which isn't raw volume and can't be tested in a hall, alone, but only with other instruments), and lack of raw, ugly tonality. If those issues are OK, the basic sound will be fine, as a natural consequence of everything else working together well.

The most important thing to listen for is a good clear, clean start to all notes. If you have to give various ones special little nudges to get them to start right, especially at the lowest volume of playing, that's not good.

[nola]

I had the opportunity to play a Guarnerius a couple years ago. Here were my observations. First, it was larger than my violin (I seem to recall my violin is a tiny bit smaller than is standard). The violin was very loud, and extremely sensitive. These combined to exploit all my shortcomings as a player. So, although I was beaming because of my situation, I really sounded like crap. I'm not sure how much of it was the violin, and how much was the gut strings (Oliv's), because I really don't have much experience playing gut. Also, I was using the owner's bow (a gorgeous Tubbs), so that's an added variable. Conclusion: I really don't know. It was a cool experience. I wish I could do it again now, and have a little more time. Of course, that will never happen. Unless there is someone in the DC area (my new location) who is feeling exceptionally charitable. -Max

[MANFIO]

Yes Nola, great violins are a bit like great horses: they are difficult to ride, they need a good rider to master them.

[Michael Darnton]

A bad violin does only one thing; a good one has many things it will do, but because of that is sensitive to what you do. If you're used to nothing you do having any effect, then when you get a good violin, it's like smashing on all the buttons all at once--which never mattered before. So you have to be careful of what you do, or you'll get something you don't want.

[pigcat]

Thanks everyone for your opinions!

The point of playability knocked right on my forehead, I was

concentrate too much to the sound the violin produced...

Michael: Yes I'm aware of the sound, it's very clean and pure,

every single note is quite even but I noticed the B note on E

string are a tad louder than others, up and down. Is that

normal or every single note in every register should be the same

volume? Or is that a wolf note? On the other hand, every

notes up to the highest I can play along the G string

all sounded very even and beautiful. The respond is good,

though I won't consider it 'extremely' sensitive, but it respond

well with the slightest touch of bowing that I can produce. Like

MANFIO said, I can make a big volume and yet very soft passage is

produce with ease. Despite those instrument (I particularly love

the Bulgarian one) are all new, I think they're doing very

fine.

Yuen: they're all new instrument, 100% handmade, from german,

bulgaria, and Czech. I particularly love the Bulgarian one, very

nice to play and sounds better among others I've tried. Full

spectrum of sound under ear, and clear without losing the richness

at a distance. There're were other instruments playing as well,

electric piano and guitar, with lots of people talking. I can still

hear the violin being played, though, but just beyong A string.

Anything lower than A string is a tad harder to notice, perhaps

it's because of the old strings on it (dominant).

The only thing I found interesting was the Bulgarian violin really

sounds mellow under the ear, but it tends to ring the ear with a

brilliant silvery character when listen in audience perspective. I

almost can't hear myself when I'm playing, though my friend can

hear every single note...

Wish I had a chance to play on old Cremonese violins and very fine

bow...

[Fellow]

I think good violins are like good horses. Good horses can run fast with easy and can walk slow

gracefully too. Bad horses you have to fight with them to get them walk and they may kick you if the

in the bad mood. Pain. (please don't tel anyone I said all this nasty things to a bad horse (or violins

for that matter) )

[Jeffrey Holmes]

I rarely enter this particular type of discussion without some concern... as I think (at least for me) it's difficult to explain what a good, or great, instrument is on a verbal level.

What I will say is that a few things I notince in great fiddles are that they will provide the player with significant feedback. The kind of feedback that can enhance the performance (give the player good clues as to what is being projected). Also, a great fiddle will tend to offer a complex palate of sound... not always "evenly". I find many have notes that pop out, or a bit of a wolf here or there... but great players seem to play right around these small things and are able to exploit what the instrument offers (in terms of complexity). Indeed, when adjusting these instruments, the players tend to want as much of this as possible, and don't usually care much about the small things they can manage with their technique. Also, I notice many (not all) of what I consider great instruments allow the player to articulate (especially noticeable in faster passages) in a way that makes you feel the notes are almost "popping" out...