violins as carry-ons now?

[jbgilm]

Does anyone know if airlines will still allow violins as carry-on baggage? I'm woried that the new rules adopted since last week have barred instruments.

John

[B.Ceruti]

I would call the airline, and tell them every single thing that is in your case (rosin, tuning fork extra strings) This way, you will be able to determine without a question if you can bring your violin, and what you may have in the case.

[melody4u]

I'm traveling next week and Delta said a violin was ok if it wasn't longer than 22 x14x9 inches. I still haven't decided if I'm going to take mine.

[jbgilm]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

melody4u

I'm traveling next week and Delta said a violin was ok if it wasn't longer than 22 x14x9 inches. I still haven't decided if I'm going to take mine.

---

Sounds like they expect your violin to have a retractable neck.

[Erika]

It's a problem. Forget flights out of or connecting in England. Not sure about domestic. There will be a number of violinists traveling in for the competition in the next couple of weeks so I will probably hear the experiences then.

I'll post a couple of articles....

-------------

Musicians put out by luggage ban

By Teresa Abeja

kenyalondonnews.com

Aug 12, 2006

Europe's summer music festivals faced a headache on Friday over a

British hand-luggage ban sparked by an alleged bomb plot, with top

performers deeply reluctant to be parted from their precious

instruments.

The conductor of Moscow's celebrated Bolshoi theatre, which is

performing in London until August 20, warned on Friday that his

musicians would under no circumstance check in their instruments.

"I saw two violins being checked in as luggage, which is unacceptable,"

said Alexander Vedernikov, who flew back to Moscow ahead of the other

musicians.

He said the Bolshoi musicians would probably travel by train to France -

which has not banned hand-luggage - and catch a flight from there rather

than risk seeing their instruments rough-handled.

British authorities banned all but the most essential items from

aircraft cabins after police said on Thursday they had foiled an alleged

terrorist plot to blow up flights from Britain to the United States.

Draconian hand-luggage restrictions have also been introduced in

Australia, Canada, Ghana, Kenya, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands and

Switzerland.

But classical musicians - particularly string players - are extremely

reluctant to be parted from their heavily insured instruments.

While violins can be carried on a player's lap, cellists typically have

to book a second seat to accommodate their bulky instruments.

Solists and members of small orchestras are most likely to be affected

by the ban, since larger orchestras often carry their instruments in

special containers in the baggage hold, or on board specially chartered

cargo planes.

Organisers at London's prestigious BBC Proms festival said they were

hoping for minimum disruption from the security measures.

"We are all concerned and working closely with the airlines and with the

orchestras to ensure that everybody can travel as usual," said a

spokeswoman for the festival.

"I think we will have no problem getting musicians to the UK - it is

only leaving that is slightly more problematic," she said.

Musicians from the BBC Scottish Orchestra, which performed at the Proms

on Wednesday, cancelled their return flights to Scotland choosing to

travel by bus instead because of the chaotic situation at London's

airports, he said.

The Proms' next challenge will be to enable the Russian violin virtuoso

Maxim Vengerov, directing the Verbier Festival Chamber Orchestra, to

return home after their Sunday performance.

"I hope by the time any of our visiting orchestras need to leave the UK

by, say, early or middle of next week there will be some sort of

solution to this problem," the spokeswoman said.

"I don't think it will affect us at this stage and at the moment we are

assuming it is business as usual."

Outside Britain, the festivals of Salzburg, Austria, Lucerne,

Switzerland and Chaise-Dieu in France had yet to report major

difficulties.

Only the Jazz in Marciac festival in south-western France was forced to

change bookings for American jazzmen whose journeys home included one or

more stopovers - since the extra security made it likely they would miss

their connecting flights.

[Erika]

Tighter Security Is Jeopardizing Orchestra Tours

By DANIEL J. WAKIN

New York Times

August 15, 2006

Air travel for classical musicians has never been easy.

Those husky cellos need an extra ticket. Hey, security! Watch that

priceless Stradivarius. Double-reed players? They have long given up on

carrying aboard those valuable knives and shaping tools used to mold the

cane that transforms their breath into lyrical sounds.

And now, with new concerns about carry-on baggage in the wake of

Britain's reported terrorist plot, it has gotten tougher.

Strict regulations imposed last week forced the New York-based Orchestra

of St. Luke's to cancel a long-awaited tour of Britain over the weekend

and sent other ensembles with imminent trips, including the Philadelphia

Orchestra, the Pittsburgh Symphony and the Minnesota Orchestra,

scrambling to cope with the new rules.

"I'm heartbroken," Marianne C. Lockwood, the president and executive

director of the St. Luke's orchestra, said yesterday. "I don't think

I've been through 72 more anguished hours in my life." The orchestra was

to have left last Thursday for concerts at the Edinburgh International

Festival and the BBC Proms at the Royal Albert Hall in London, one of

the major summer music festivals.

All travelers in Britain had to adapt to the ban on carry-on items,

which was relaxed yesterday to allow one small carry-on. But not all

travelers ply their trade with highly personal artifacts made of

centuries-old wood, horsehair and precious metals that many musicians

are loath to put in the hold.

Its rules are of course in flux. The United States Transportation

Security Administration says on its Web site that musical instruments

are generally allowed in the cabin in addition to a carry-on bag and a

personal item, but it leaves size requirements and permission for the

carry-on to the airlines. In addition, it promises that security

personnel will handle instruments carefully.

That is of little comfort to musicians, particularly string players, who

suffer constant anxiety over the threat of damage and fears that their

instruments will arbitrarily not be allowed in the cabin, even though

violins fit into most overhead bins.

The violin virtuoso and conductor Pinchas Zukerman said security

officials had even asked him to remove the strings of his 1742 Guarneri

del Gèsu. "I've had unbelievable discussions at certain airports," he

said by telephone while waiting at the Atlanta airport for a flight with

his wife, the cellist Amanda Forsyth. "They want to stick their hands in

my instruments, and they say, 'It's my job.' "

Cellists have it the worst, Ms. Forsyth said. "We buy the seat with a

cello, and they treat us like second-class criminals."

The new regulations have, for now, increased the complications.

The Bolshoi opera and ballet, which have been performing at the Royal

Opera House in London, will send their orchestra's instruments back to

Moscow by ferry and truck at the end of the week if the restrictions are

not relaxed, said Faith Wilson, a spokeswoman for the Bolshoi's promoter

at the house, Victor Hochhauser Presents. The Bolshoi orchestra's chief

conductor, Alexander Vedernikov, had been quoted as saying that the

musicians' contract requires them to keep their instruments with them.

"Clearly this is a very unusual situation," Ms. Wilson said. "I'm sure

there are insurance issues, but I don't think anybody's ever had to cope

with the security restrictions that we're up against."

The Minnesota Orchestra is due to leave on Sunday for a European tour

that also includes stops in Edinburgh and at the Proms. Like many major

orchestras, it packs its instruments in specially designed and padded

crates.

The biggest ones, which hold harps and double basses, are six and a half

feet high and four feet wide. About 20 players in the 95-member ensemble

like to take their instruments or precious bows on board, but they will

stow them this time around, said a spokeswoman, Gwen Pappas. The trunks

are delivered straight to concert halls, so the instruments will not be

immediately available for players who want to practice at their hotels.

The Philadelphia Orchestra plays the Proms in early September. Its

trunks also have space for all the members' instruments, but it is

working on backup plans for about a dozen musicians who are going on to

other jobs or on vacation and not returning with the orchestra, said a

spokeswoman, Katherine Blodgett.

Those concerts, coming later, give the orchestras time to prepare. And

these are large, experienced touring groups that own the crates.

Not so the Orchestra of St. Luke's, a highly regarded ensemble that

nevertheless tours infrequently and saw the trip as a boost for its

image. It spent two years planning the trip and many months carefully

polishing the programs, which were to have been broadcast in the United

States.

The trip had special significance for the orchestra's principal

conductor, Donald Runnicles, who is Scottish, and for its president, Ms.

Lockwood, who was born in England.

Ms. Lockwood described three days of phone calls, fueled by takeout

Chinese food, to find alternatives. The musicians had planned to carry

their smaller instruments by hand.

Charter planes were too expensive: about $300,000, which would have

doubled the cost of the tour. The orchestra scoured larger orchestras

from Philadelphia to Boston to borrow trunks. All were in use. St.

Luke's considered flying the musicians to Paris, having them take a

train to London and having the instruments trucked in, but there would

not have been time to make a Tuesday rehearsal.

Then someone from Edinburgh called Saturday to offer the loan of

instruments.

In the end, none of the efforts mattered. British Airways canceled the

flight that day at 5 p.m.

[Danielle]

Domestic flights are fine with a violin, I did it two days after the press released the story. Just be prepared to have security look at it.

[littlefactoryviolin]

Heard that a lot of the passengers' luggage have been lost in

transit....don't know whether the security would turn away a violin

even if everything is inspectable (you know what security is

like!). Me and my friends were just discussing this the other

day...he actually bought a seat for his guitar for his trip

back to France but even then he had his doubts about being able to

bring it on the plane

[Erika]

I'm starting to wonder whether loaned instruments will be the future of touring ensembles. I know someone who recently borrowed a cello for a music festival because the airline wouldn't allow hers on the flight (not even if she purchased a seat for it). Perhaps stringed instruments will end up like pianos, where you simply have to have instruments available at the venue. Or maybe the fuss will all die down in a few months...

______

Baroque concert saved by loaned instruments

Last Updated Tue, 15 Aug 2006 13:43:57 EDT

CBC Arts

A baroque ensemble from Italy, unable to carry precious instruments as carry-on luggage because of new airline security restrictions, performed in Vancouver thanks to some local assistance.

Alessandro Tampieri (left), concertmaster and soloist for the Academia Montis Regalis, practises on the viola d'amore lent by retired University of British Columbia professor Hans-Karl Piltz. (CBC) Alessandro Tampieri (left), concertmaster and soloist for the Academia Montis Regalis, practises on the viola d'amore lent by retired University of British Columbia professor Hans-Karl Piltz. (CBC)

Thanks to loaned instruments, the Academia Montis Regalis - a baroque and classical ensemble from Turin - was able to perform its scheduled concert of several previously unpublished Vivaldi manuscripts at Vancouver's Chan Centre on Monday night.

The Pacific Baroque Orchestra and retired University of British Columbia professor Hans-Karl Piltz came forward to lend instruments to the visiting musicians.

The musicians decided to leave their own instruments at home in Italy because they were scheduled to fly through the U.K., which last week enacted strict carry-on baggage restrictions after the discovery of an alleged plot to bring explosives onto commercial flights between the U.K. and the U.S.

[snipped out the rest of the article to save space]

[reedman]

Once again, don't asume everything will be fine domestically. Delta has responded to me personally via email in June that "all carry-on items must fit easily through the Size-Wise unit (22"14"X9")." Unless you have a hinged neck on your full-size fiddle, there may be a definite problem getting your violin in the cabin on a Delta flight. Forget viola cases. In addition, the "customer care" person wrote that Delta flight personnel can make further restrictions depending on the circumstances of the specific flight.

So, don't fly Delta, use your back-pack straps with the case riding low on your back (so that the case doesn't stick up behind your neck/head--it will appear to personnel more as a backpack, rather than an instrument case), and act confident...

[jmaj]

I am flying Northwest next week. I took my case to the local airport ( it's a smaller airport so this is easy) and had the ticket agents give me the OK to carry it on. It's a Howard Core 399, a shaped case that is relatively compact. All my flights are on DC-9's or larger aircraft. Commuter planes - many don't have enough overhead capacity to hold cases.

Good point: tuning fork, big round cake of rosin, etc. go in the check in bag.

[rutherford]

I flew Air Lot and Norwegian internationally last week and no way was I allowed to take the violin on board. I even offered to hold it in my hands without the case. They apologized and said the previously they would have let me but in response to the Death-by-Contact-Lens-Solution threat no hand luggage was allowed on. They wrapped the violin case in bubble wrap and put 'fragile' signs all over it and it came through fine - but I wasn't risking a 'fine' violin.

Things will calm down shortly, I'm sure.

Rutherford

[David Tseng]

As the saying goes, if there is a will, there is a way. If someone decides to hide 250 cc of nitroglycerin in the body cavity, are they going to examine or x-ray every passenger? I think expanding intelligence service and air marshal program are the way to go.

[mitch]

My daughter flew from Oaklant to JFK on Jet Blue last week. There was no problem taking her violin as a carry on.

[Steve_W]

I returned from Halifax through Toronto to San Francisco on Air Canada last Saturday; no problems carrying on my fiddle (in a Bobelock shaped suspension case with a Cushy cover) even though I was also carrying a smallish backpack (which could fit under my seat).

They did run the violin through the scanner an extra time in Toronto because something about the angle of the case handle in the first image alerted their suspicions, but there was no problem. I normally remove anything "funny looking" from the case prior to flying but had neglected to do so going out; going through security at San Francisco (prior to the British incident) the security guy pulled me aside and had me open the case so they could take a closer look; the suspicious item was apparently my rubber practice mute!

On the flight home, the attendant told us that the rules regarding carry-on items have been changing daily, and sometimes several times a day, since the recent incidents. I would say that it's probably best to check with the airlines the day before you fly to see what the current situation is. Currently it sounds like the severest restrictions are on flights to/from the UK, and that domestic flights aren't affected that much (except for liquids). -Steve

[Steve_W]

quote:

---

Originally posted by:

reedman

Once again, don't asume everything will be fine domestically. Delta has responded to me personally via email in June that "all carry-on items must fit easily through the Size-Wise unit (22"14"X9")." Unless you have a hinged neck on your full-size fiddle, there may be a definite problem getting your violin in the cabin on a Delta flight. Forget viola cases. In addition, the "customer care" person wrote that Delta flight personnel can make further restrictions depending on the circumstances of the specific flight.

So, don't fly Delta, use your back-pack straps with the case riding low on your back (so that the case doesn't stick up behind your neck/head--it will appear to personnel more as a backpack, rather than an instrument case), and act confident...

---

Thanks for this information. Delta was one of the airlines I was considering for my last trip but I'll avoid them in the future. I normally fly either Southwest or Jet Blue and have had no problems bringing my fiddle onboard (prior to the recent terrorism issues, of course) even though I generally take it in my oblong Weber case. It's worth remembering that regardless of what the airlines say, the staff at the gate make the final decision either way. -Steve

[Brad Dorsey]

"Delta has responded to me personally via email in June that "all carry-on items must fit easily through the Size-Wise unit (22"14"X9")."

Other airlines have similar size restrictions. I always see a box this size at the check-in counter with a sign saying that all carry-on items must fit in the box. A regular violin case will not fit in due the the length of the bow. But I don't think an umbrella would be dis-allowed as a carry-on due to its size, even though it wouldn't fit in the box either, so there is some flexibility.

My strategy has always been to bring a cheap violin that I wouldn't mind checking if I had to. I carry it in a shaped case, because this looks smaller than an oblong case. And as I pass through anyplace where its size might be challenged, I carry it as unobtrusively as possible -- low down and vertical next to my legs. I've always been able to carry it on the plane.

[reedman]

All airlines have carry-on requirements that fall between 44" and about 51". The difference is which airlines are ACTIVELY enforcing the requirements, without concern about the contents? Delta just happens to be one that is following size requirements to the letter. Having an inexpensive backup instrument to fly with might be an option, but it isn't if you need your "good" instrument for a job or audition. Baggage smashers don't care what is inside, and what about lost or misdirected checked luggage that might show up in 72 hours--or never?

I have been seriously considering purchasing Anvil cases for our instruments, so that they could be checked. But that still doesn't address the issue of getting off your flight to Burmingham AL, and finding out your instrument went to Buffalo instead (or Burmingham UK)...My family has experienced misdirected lugage in about 25% of our flights in the past 2 years. I even had to go out and rent a tux for a guest conductor last year--his luggage never did show up. Thank goodness he didn't check his scores.

[bean_fidhleir]

I just saw a story from the Ottowa Citizen about Air Canada having wiped out a $13K viola in checked baggage. The full story here: http://www.canada.com/ottawaci...4d7f-b076-875c835a032e

[Steve_W]

"The Montreal-based airline admits that its carry-on policy has not been consistent over the years, but says musicians and other travellers should get accustomed to a new reality."

Note this incident happened back in July, so it's unconnected to the more recent extra restrictions. I had no trouble with Air Canada on my recent trip in August (with totally full flights); none of the airline personnel even looked twice at my violin, but it sounds from this like I can expect problems in the future! As others have pointed out, even though the airlines may allow you to carry on a fiddle, when it comes down to it, they may force you to check it and there's nothing you can do about it. When I started flying to gigs with my expensive violin I got a rider on my household insurance policy that covers full repair/replacement costs on my equipment; it wasn't that expensive, I think something like $90 a year for about $10K of coverage. It's very specific as to the list of equipment covered, however, and when I upgrade my equipment I have to remember to update the policy. This provides some reassurance although I'd still be very upset if my favorite instrument was damaged.

This all makes me curious, how would you pack a violin assuming there's a good risk the airline would force you to check it? Is an Anvil case the way to go? Or something else? Is there anything that's small enough not to attract undue attention as a carry-on but that would provide adequate protection if it were checked? -Steve

[melody4u]

I just got back from flying 4 different flights with Delta and had no trouble at all. The security people searched it good on the exray machine but never opened it and the Delta people never even said a word when I carried it on. I emptied my case of everything except the violin and bow and I think that helped.

Lorene

[Goose Bane]

Airline carry-on rules are based on both dimension and

volume.  In the course of my work, I was recently given

a cheat sheet that listed all the different (major) airlines and

their dimensional/volumetric rules.  A fiddle case fits easily

into the latter if not so much the former.  I can guarantee

you the unions will be working tirelessly with

many/most/all airline companies to ensure musical instruments

can remain as carry on luggage.  On the downside of this, I

was told the other day that cellos now had to be checked.

 Period.  I guess size really does matter

[Steve_W]

I'd be very interested in seeing that document, Goose Bane... Don't suppose you could post relevant portions? It's curious to me that different airlines have different rules, though. Seems this should be something that's regulated.

[jbgilm]

Different airplanes have different onboard storage available. Some of the small planes I fly on have virtually no overhead storage, so they can't allow much caryon.

John

[rutherford]

There are really two seperate issues - that of size and of security regulations. Luckily, I have never had my violin not allowed because of size. I've never flown Delta and usually fly in Europe. Frankly, people carry all sorts of stuff on planes these days. Violins actually don't take up very much room in an overhead compartment and generally are not heavy.

On the other hand, during periodic security spasms, ain't nothing getting on the plane and there really doesn't seem to be any appealing to anyone. A gate agent in Minneapolis told me August 10th that the regulations were changing every hour! When I boarded that flight Minneapolis morning, all liquids were banned but violins, computers etc were fine. When I got off midday in Chicago and boarded a flight to Warsaw I could carry only what fit in a clear plastic bag - computer was OK, violin was not. By the time I boarded a late night flight from Warsaw to Oslo, only my passport and cash was allowed on..

R