Beaux Eau Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 No big whoop - but anybody have any opinions on this Post WWII (maybe) Italian (maybe) violin (for sure!)? 280010351998 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron1 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Beau- Can't you post something clickable? Few are going to take the time-wasting steps needed to reveal the subject of your posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchy rosin Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI...Item&item=280010351998 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaux Eau Posted July 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I couldn't agree more! And it would be fun to get more replies. But - I grew up watching Mickey Mouse Club in black and white, and I haven't figured out how to post an active link! If you'd be willing to waste the time to help me out, I'll promise to do better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchy rosin Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Hi Beaux Eaux, You can either just paste it, like I did above and the link is recognised, or you can press the "http" button with the chain-link icon just below/right where it says ' Message Text * '. I hope this helps I am suspicious that the violin is a revarnished german trade but you should wait until the real authorities speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I agree with Scratchy but the real authorities won't comment on an active auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuckers Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I agree, I think it is revarnished. It sure doesn't look like an Italian to me. This seller (who always photographs the violins on this shag carpet) always gives the most outrageuos attributions to common work. The corners appear to be german, the overall thick look to the fiddle also suggests it is either German or Czech. The scrolls not bad though. I'd put odds on Czech because I have seen more that have both that heavy look and the same type of flaming on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 I don't like the scroll, it seems it was built on an outside mold. I find it uninteristing. The accurate description given by the seller points out that he knows quite well what he has in his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchy rosin Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Manfio, I can see that the top plate over-hang is massive on the left hand side. Is this why you say "it seems it was built on an outside mold" or some other detail? Do you really think the description is accurate? Do you really think that it reflects his knowledge of "what he has on his hands"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Hi! I think it was built in an outside mold because in one photo you can see a (bad) joint in the rib mitre, that's typical of an outside mold (but I may be wrong). The accurate description: that points out that the seller is a dealer. A "normal" person (that could be selling a jewell without knowing it's value...) would not decribe the violin in such a precise way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchy rosin Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 Manfio, Yes, I agree with the sentiment. So it is not that the description is accurate really, it is more that the description is detailed and gives the impression of accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 This is a description I would like to see: "This violin is with my family for decades, it was in the attic. Unfortunatly it's not German... And it's not new too (I know that old pianos are worthless). It needs new strings too. There is a paper inside in which it's written: "Josef Rocca fecit - Taurini ANNO dOMINI 1846 - IHS". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratchy rosin Posted July 29, 2006 Report Share Posted July 29, 2006 We can all dream............. The varnish was dirty do I decided to leave it alone. The bridge had fallen over and the bit of dowel rod was rolling around; so I put it back in the case and decided to sell it. I couldn't read the label clearly, so I put the felt tip pens back in the drawer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Yes, that would be great. This would be good also: "There are some letters and a card inside the case written: "Paolo Borciani - Quarteto Italiano", it seems the violin belonged to him but I've never heard this name before, I'm a rock lover and I want to get rid of it as soon as possible". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I had a cello here some years ago. It belonged to a very cultured Catholic priest from Milano. The cello was a Ferdinando Garimberti, with a one piece back, in mint condition. The priest had made a poverty vow, so that he had to sell his old precious cello, but was authorized to comission one from Garimberti. All that was documented with letters and eclesiastical documents... fantastic. When I told the old priest the market value of the cello he was quite surprised, his vows would not permit him to get it today... I sent it to the Rome and from there it whent to Japan and a new professional center for poor people was built on his parish with the money. I've earned nothing with the whole operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john j Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Hi everyone, I agree completely with Tuckers as this seller has been around the block a few times and knows exactly what he is doing. He is hoping that someone from here or abroad will believe his story and this is the kind of violin seller that ebay needs to get rid of but that will never happen. Just another reason why so many people are afraid to buy a violin on ebay. john j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japes Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I actually believe this seller has the notion he is experienced and that his attributions are correct, which is not to say he isn't suffering from ISOC syndrome. There are a number of sellers with similar confidence in their identification abilities, which is always the source of a bit of a chuckle and a roll of the eyes. He doesn't claim to be ignorant (despite his ignorance) and, in fact, generally refers to himself as a dealer. Nevertheless, in my opinion, this is a Czech fiddle, not revarnished, but the back does look to have been tampered with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I read this seller's listings from time to time and I also remember his listings from when his seller ID was different. I have always felt he went a little over the top, which I might be guilty of myself from time to time. The difference is that he seems to do it all the time. eBay is a funny market where "professional, soloist" violins often sell for less than $500. It is a fine line to walk between outrageous and exhuberant. If a high quality, prewar Markneukirchen trade violin were to be described as a high level student instrument (which is accurate) it is unlikely to sell for $500 on eBay. It would be $2500-$3500 in any real shop. Hinting that a violin might be Italian, or suggesting that a thing with common and coarse attributes was in fact, a fine, rare and valuable thing, is deception and fraud, no matter how you slice it. However, such behavior involving violins is scarcely limited to eBay. I have found that an enthusiastic description, allowing for a bit of reality to add credibility, and disclosure of defects in detail, actually leads to higher prices as bidders have more confidence that they have been given adequate data for a rational decision. All puff with no substance will tend to alienate just those buyers who will spend more. It is a bit difficult for a relative novice like myself to come across convincingly as an expert, but the serious buyer wants to deal with someone who has at least some expertise. But I have heard the top experts say, "I don't know" sometimes. Even a listing with a big "I don't know" can be interesting and result in a good price. The seller who is the subject of this thread is making a mistake in not offering a guarantee. Final sales result in lower average prices. Generally much lower. I take back about 10% of what I sell on eBay, and almost always sell the person another violin anyway. Even if I didn't resell the returned instrument and threw it away, I would be ahead. Don't worry, I never throw them away. I am sensitive to this very topic because it is difficult to get a good price on eBay with an understated and conservative description. I have experimented with various styles from the austere to the dry and factual, to over kill, and humorous. I prefer the humorous, but no one is really willing to pay for a joke. Having started out as an eBay buyer, I try to do what appeals to me, but I am sure others are turned off a bit. What I do not understand is why the violin is listed on the UK site when the seller is from California? Also, he buys a lot of his fiddles on eBay. I have an appraisal he wrote on a violin I bought from another seller on eBay claiming the violin was a Vuillaume shop instrument. That, it is not. How much puffing is appropriate, I guess depends upon the venue. Does Malibu go too far? I think so. But he hurts himself more than others as his things do not bring good prices. By the way, I like some of the interesting suggestions for eBay descriptions. I am tempted.... Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Hi Pahdah! Let's change services, I write violin descriptions for you and you sell my instruments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathyk Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 I think it just looks like it's from ebay UK, because SR probably plugged the item number into the UK version. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...Item&item=280010351998 BTW there was a thread on here, I think several months ago, that outlined a series of sales from ebay that went something like: "A" sold a 'genuine' XXXXXX violin (label included no extra charge) to "B" "B" listed same violin, but with no pedigree since it had been appriased/evaluated and the claim to be a genuine XXXXXX could no longer be maintained. It was sold to buyer "C". It went for substantially less than "B" had paid for it, of course. "C" then peddled it on ebay, disregarding any insinuation that it was not a genuine XXXXXX and just honed in on the label, claiming they had no other information to make them think it was not genuine. Of course the price took off again without any hint of false label mentioned. As I recall, the person who started that thead was buyer/seller "B", and Malibu-musical was also part of the alphabet story. I'd love to find that thread but I can't seem to get search to work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alittlebettereveryday Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 The thread "kathyk" referenced if anyone's interested: http://www.maestronet.com/forums/messagevi...eyword1=muncher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathyk Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: alittlebettereveryday The thread "kathyk" referenced if anyone's interested: http://www.maestronet.com/foru...ey=y&keyword1=muncher Yes, that's the one. Now with the old auction links expired though I'm not sure how it was I'd thought malibu fit into the puzzle? Or maybe they didn't at all and my memory is faulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 One of the problems I see is that many custumers are not able to see problems such as oversized instruments, cracks, repairs needed, cost of set up, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Schutz Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Im am not at all expert in digital photography, but a lot of the photos in this listing look like they have been photoshopped. HS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matzstudio Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Japes I actually believe this seller has the notion he is experienced and that his attributions are correct, which is not to say he isn't suffering from ISOC syndrome. Japes - what means ISOC? *i sell only crap* would be my guess, but i really don´t know. thanks for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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