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Omobono
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Alright, I'll bite. They are Strad models and not the Amatise variety. So I will go waaay out on a limb and say they were made after 1700 somewhere in Europe

Age- mid 1700's because:

Varnish loss (is the splotchiness of the red one just due to varnish loss? The amber varnish looks chippy?)

Wear on the button of #2

Country - I will guess Italian

Comments: Wow! #1 sure has a wide waist! Also, I thinks I see a green-hued ground. #2's outline sticks closer to the classic Strad shape.

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Slightly off topic.I have seen both of these violins and know what they`re supposed to be but from what i know im sceptical about whether they(who did sell them-shall remain unamed) know what they`re talking about or whether they should or will remain in business for long.Even though they supposedly have some heavy weights associated with them.

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The outline of #2 is a Golden Era Strad. A bit squarer shoulders than #1, upper corners a bit more hooked. Waist a bit narrower. I recall someone using the term "helmet shaped" to describe the upper bouts of a fiddle. I think #2 and Strad have the helmet shape on upper bouts.

#1 has more rounded upper shoulders. It is a broad fiddle which makes me think, French, as does the color. I think it is loosely based on a Strad model.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
fiddlecollector

Slightly off topic.I have seen both of these violins and know what they`re supposed to be but from what i know im sceptical about whether they(who did sell them-shall remain unamed) know what they`re talking about or whether they should or will remain in business for long.Even though they supposedly have some heavy weights associated with them.

I think you are right on topic, in fact.

Maybe that's why people are interested in homing their skills

on a forum like Maestronet.

(I have modified one of my previous questions above to accommodate your suspicions)

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Falstaff, Thanks. Omo's posted a tricky one! I'm just a maker who looks at the golden Cremeonese era...I'm shooting from the hip for fun here, but I'm a bit suprised that our 'expert' chums have not chipped in yet.....no doubt there is a predatory smart guy out there who will chip in at the last minute to score a coup...come on wise uys!

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Following fiddlecollector's train of thought, I think the second violin may be passing as a Guadagnini, or as a Pressenda (although I really don't think it is a Pressenda). To me, it has a certain Turin-like character, but the outline is not very convincing, and I can't look at it as a whole, since the picture is large.

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quote:


I can't look at it as a whole, since the picture is large

There are a couple ways to see a smaller image. If you rest the pointer anywhere on the image an oragne icon with blue arrows will appear towards the lower right(at least it does on my system). Click on it and you can go from small to expanded view.

Or, you can save the image to your hard drive - I use Microsoft Picture It - and view it in a multitude of sizes. In fact, I just put them side to side and, Ron, my eyes see a differnce in the shape of the upper bout outline. #1's shoulders are not as square - they approach the button from a more sub-horizontal angle.

Does the comparatively greater amount of pre-varnish stain on #2 lead us anywhere? Does #2's varnish look chippier?

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I guess it's time to offer you some more.

I will also try to summarise if I can what people thought as I go.

Summary of views thus far.

two backs have exactly the same outline

from the button down half-way to the upper corners.

Strad models and not the Amatise variety.

made after 1700 somewhere in Europe

Age- mid 1700's Italian

#1 sure has a wide middle bouts, green-hued ground.

#1 rounded upper shoulders. broad fiddle which makes me think, French,

as does the color. I think it is loosely based on a Strad model.

French for #1. Long corners, shoulders continue angled up to button.

#1 is a Lupot

#1 is claiming to be a d'Espine

The color of #1 looks a lot like a Pressenda.

#2's outline sticks closer to the classic Strad shape.

a Golden Era Strad. A bit squarer shoulders than #1

#2 is a Mantegazza

# 2 says English

#2 wants to be a Lott.

#2 may be passing as a Guadagnini, , or as a Pressenda

Here are the two tops. What you expected to see?

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Here are the scrolls. Quite different concepts.

My overall impression of the two is:

#1: a more substantial bolder pattern

reminiscent of later Strad model or even Guarneri family (cf. scroll)

#2: an Amati feel about the overall model, even in the scroll.

The approach to the edgework also quite distinct.

#1 a more extravagant scoop to the edge and broader purfling.

#2 a tighter purfling and reserved proper approach

- again Amati style? (no bee-stings either)

Varnish too of very different quality.

rich crimson of #1 - Yes, It does remind one of Pressenda.

#2 a dry more functional finish.

#1 the more robust exuberant looking fiddle;

#2 the more refined delicate style.

Do you agree or disagree?

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I actually really like violin #1. It looks like it has a few characterisitics of the work of Rota (like the pronounced purfling, no pin on a one-piece back, neatly cut ffs, round and pronounced eye of the scroll), but the rest is very intriguing. What's with the dark red varnish? (Is it red, anyway? Because I'm color blind)

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quote:


Originally posted by:
Mauricio

I actually really like violin #1. It looks like it has a few characterisitics of the work of Rota (like the pronounced purfling, no pin on a one-piece back, neatly cut ffs, round and pronounced eye of the scroll), but the rest is very intriguing. What's with the dark red varnish? (Is it red, anyway? Because I'm color blind)

Yeap. It's very red!

I think it looks a great fiddle too......

that's why I wanted to put it up here to share.

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