Nemo Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Curious if there are any good ideas for a carving cradle. I'm getting to the point of needing to make one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Quick and simple, or involved and over-engineered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted December 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 What ever works the best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Here is what I made. It's made of 1/2" birch plywood and MDF. The back/top is held in place by the MDF pieces I fixed on the top. The lower MDF piece is adjustable by about 3.5mm to fascilitate the rough back/top, which are eventually trimmed to the final outline. On the back is a block of Mahogany so it can be held in a vice: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispirati Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 There are more photos on this LINK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 For carving the arching, I get the same result just screwing a block of wood to the bottom of the plate (be sure you're only drilling/screwing into the waste!), and clamping that in a machinist's vice so it can be turned and angled this way and that and locked down. There was an idea posted awhile back about drilling a hole in the plate to fit a dowel set in the bench so you can move the plate around quickly, I'd like to try that for fine work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMM22 Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Ispirati, Is this your device? It looks very well made, but I wonder if there is any movement in the extremities under heavy carving, since even very strong structures can deflect when spanning great distance. Where can this device be obtained? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 OK, there seem to be many ways to hold the plate for roughing the outside of the plates . But, what about holding the plate while roughing out the inside of the plate? I can't picture any way of doing this besides carving out a thick piece of wood to form a mold matching the arching and then somehow securing the plate in the mold. How do makers tackle this? -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 quote: Originally posted by: Brad OK, there seem to be many ways to hold the plate for roughing the outside of the plates . But, what about holding the plate while roughing out the inside of the plate? I can't picture any way of doing this besides carving out a thick piece of wood to form a mold matching the arching and then somehow securing the plate in the mold. Mine works fine for both outside and inside: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ispirati Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Brad.. you did not read the remaining of the link. You can simply reverse your plate. The cradle is hollowed to allow the arching to fit. It can be bought from www.bcbows.com in Italy. GMM22... I don't own one. But I heard from Claudio, the owner of the posted photos, there are some movements during carving. It is not perfect. He is willing to live with it. However, it does bring great advantages being able to rotate the plates at will with any inclination of the platform. You will be able to see and feel your archings much easier than the stationary cradles. You don't have to buy this cradle. It can easily be made. I have posted this site before. I will post it again here. This is completely hand made: The site belongs to a Japanese violin maker resides in Cremona, Takahashi. It shows the process. http://www.interq.or.jp/gold/akiravln/cremona_inf25.htm He also made a cradle for Cello plate carving as well: http://www.interq.or.jp/gold/akiravln/cremona_inf32.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB3 Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Mine is simply a chunk of 2 x 12 with a "guitar-shaped" cutout going all the way through the plank, so that the flat edges of the violin can sit on the edges of the hole, and the arched portion either hangs through the hole, or is up above it. There is a piece of thin plywood cut to fit the outer perimeter of the plates--it is fastened with glue and brads from my air-nailer. The cradle rests directly on the work surface, and wedges against a bench dog, or the like. The arrangement works for both fronts and backs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad H Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Ispirati and Matt, Thanks for the replies and images. I am gearing up for my first fiddle and am trying to think out the processes. I guess I was incorrectly assuming that the plate would need physical support from the cradle not only on its edges, but also along the middle areas of the plate. Am I correct in now supposing the plate is thick enough so it won't be damaged during the initial roughing out of the inside, and that the subsequent finer graduations, done by finger planes and scrapers, do not exert enough force to damage a plate only suspended from its edges? Nice cradle, Matt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted December 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Thanks for the replies. Interesting ideas there. Matt, is the thin piece on top that is adustable split on the bottom and hinged some how just before the c bout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.R.Fisher Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 Here is a simple cradle I use. I clamp it in the bench vise.This holds it secure and I can turn it to whatever position I want. It also projects forward from the workbench making it easy to work on. Brad, notice the cardboard shims laying in the bottom of the cradle, this is to give support to the plate while hollowing out the inside,more or less shims can be added according to the arching.http://i25.photobucket.com/alb...sher/P1010320.jpg[/img Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted December 29, 2005 Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 quote: Originally posted by: Nemo Thanks for the replies. Interesting ideas there. Matt, is the thin piece on top that is adustable split on the bottom and hinged some how just before the c bout? Do you mean adjustable in terms of width? No it is not, just lenght, but it is slightly oversized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I think Brad's point about supporting the full arch of the top when hollwing the inside is important. Maybe not absolutely critical, but plate deflection during carving is an issue, I think. I have two cradles that I've made. One is basswood and carved to the arching of the top so that it supports the entire top. The other was made using plaster of paris poured into a dam and then a already carved plate was used to form the plaster while wet. Once it dried, it was lined it with felt. Both work well. I'm sure Matt's also works well. I just preferred to support the plate with no significant gaps anywhere. Claudio's fixture is very fine. Maybe the ultimate--like a Tormek, not necessary, but nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted December 30, 2005 Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 I never once feared popping a seam or cracking a plate while carving. If you keep your tools deadly sharp you won't have to force them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbow Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 M_A_T_T, Your carving cradle looks simple and very functional. Nice work! What is the purpose of the relief in the cradle across the C bout? Does anyone have dimensions and info on making a cradle for cello plates? For instance, how much support should remain between the plate edge and the cutout area? Any other general tips, options for hold down clamps, etc.? Also, how flat must the rib face of the plates be and how is the flatness best measured? Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 I have a device for holding violins, but when I make a viola, which is rarely, I do this http://darntonviolins.com/ethan/gougearch.jpg (two bench stops and a clamp) and this http://darntonviolins.com/ethan/topandback/gradback.jpg (two clamps and three blocks of wood--one block wedged under the c-bout to keep thw whole plate from rotating). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Jimbow M_A_T_T, Your carving cradle looks simple and very functional. Nice work! What is the purpose of the relief in the cradle across the C bout? I doesn't need to be held there, just around the upper & lower bouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbow Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Matt, Is the 3/4 " MDF board flat enough to use as a basis for gaging cello plate flatness (on the rib face)? I am particularily concerned with flatness of the 2 piece top which will certainly need significant planing after gluing together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Tseng Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Brad, for roughing inside of the plate, many makers using the simple setup shown in Feng Jiang's web site. You can measure the thickness without removing the plate. I don't use any craddle at all. I have home made gouges desinged for one hand operation. I clamp a pine board on the bench as a stop. I use my left hand to hold the plate and right hand to carve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_A_T_T Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Jimbow Matt, Is the 3/4 " MDF board flat enough to use as a basis for gaging cello plate flatness (on the rib face)? I am particularily concerned with flatness of the 2 piece top which will certainly need significant planing after gluing together. I'm not sure where you say I use 3/4" MDF. Anyways, if you want to gauge plate flatness use a GOOD straight-edge, that's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbow Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 quote: I'm not sure where you say I use 3/4" MDF. Anyways, if you want to gauge plate flatness use a GOOD straight-edge, that's what I do. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, Matt. You mentioned MDF earlier and I bought the thickest MDF available here in the U.S. which happens to be 3/4 inch thick, thats all! Others have occasionally suggested using a straight edge but I wasn't sure that was enough to establish a plane surface. It's been many years since my geometry classes but I do recall that a cone is made up of many straight lines but those straight lines certainly don't establish a plane, or flat, surface. Maybe a straight edge check in many positions is a valid check---apparently it works for you and others. As a newbie to "making", I just want to do things correctly and must occasionally ask some dumb questions. The books are of little help so please bear with me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Jim--a straightedge used in an 'X' pattern will do pretty well. Winding Sticks can also help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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