Guy_Gallo Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Channel: the scoop from edge, through purfling, to rise of arch: From: Amati CT Scan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej_Kliman Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Please, does anyone have an illustration or a diagram of a "clip-in" type of frog (the one used before the "invention" of the screw mechanism)? Falstaff, thank you, very interesting thread! m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Found this image on Historical Bows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Heres a different variation,the button is a dummy it doesnt turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: fiddlecollector Heres a different variation,the button is a dummy it doesnt turn. quote: Originally posted by: falstaff Found this image on Historical Bows And this is a clip-in frog, but with the rarer semicircular 'notch' at the front of the frog instead of a triangular projection--either of which serve to 'center' the frog as it is clipped in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 how exactly does it work, im far from an expert on early bows.is there a series of holes under the frog? Ive saw this recently but couldn`t `fiddle` with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Fiddlecollector, if you mean the clip-in frog, they are not normally adjustable--although some few makers are now making them with a sort of 'ratchet' under the frog. They were originally adjusted for tension by putting strips of paper under the hair. By the way, I think we ought to be careful about just posting other people's photos by linking directly to their server, it's often not appreciated when the owner's bandwidth spikes because someone copped their photo link, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 No i mean this one the ratchet ,,i could imagine a peg under the frog (like the screw on a modern bow,) which locates in a series of holes and the wire /string locates on the ratchet to adjust the tension and hold the frog in place.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Are these the type Matej is refering too. This one has been modernised i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 There is no need of a peg under the frog with a crémaillère frog, the frog slides along, commonly kept parallel by having a groove in it which fits the stick like a modern bow, and the ratchet allows a wide range of adjustment. I believe in some cases the frog may slide in a groove on the bottom of the stick, but take that with a grain of salt as I may be making it up. By the way, it begins to appear that the screw mechanism appeared rather later than is commonly thought. Many transitional bows still had clip-in type frogs, and it is quite likely that no baroque bows originally had screw frogs at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 Heres another along the lines of Steven Marvins bow posted by Falstaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 And heres a Poccette bow with a different mechanism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 4, 2006 Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 And out of interet, heres an ivory bow of which this is the only one i`ve ever seen . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Andres Sender By the way, I think we ought to be careful about just posting other people's photos by linking directly to their server, it's often not appreciated when the owner's bandwidth spikes because someone copped their photo link, right? Good point. I figured the inclusion of a direct link to the whole site (and any additional traffic to the site) would justify the use of the image in this thread. But there is no reason to not host the photo (and so conserve the original's bandwidth). I've edited my original message and linked to a different server. I will PM you the address and you can edit your message that contains the image... Thanks. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Whats all this talk about servers,i use my own bandwidth allowance??? What dates are you talking about with the screw mechanism coming in.I saw one which was dated at 1720. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 In the initial post of the clip on frog I linked my message directly to the image as it was stored on the Historical Bows website rather than saving it to MY server (PhotoBucket). Andres pointed out, correctly, that some websites have a specified amount of bandwidth, and my linking from here would, in effect, count against that website's total allotment. I've since moved the photo to PhotoBucket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 FC, there used to be talk that screws came in around 1700. I'd love to see the one dated 1720. There's a great pair of articles on early bows in Early Music magazine of a few years ago by Robert Seletsky. He argues that many bows are dated too early or were retrofitted. It appears that there was a vogue for 'retro' looking bows during the transitional period, probably catering to a conservative segment of the market even while the bow evolved towards the modern design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Right , thought Andres was refering to my pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Another thought on bandwidth/hosting -- taking the picture to host on your own server can be seen as stealing it (ie publishing it without permission), whereas linking to the photo on their site maintains possession/ownership. Falstaff, if I may paraphrase your comments earlier in this thread (Dec 27) -- they didn't make the photos to post on Maestronet. A link is better etiquette. Bottom line is that if a picture is taken to be hosted elsewhere, permission should be asked of the original owner. If there are issues of bandwidth, the picture owner may graciously accept your offer of separately hosting the photo. Just my opinion, of course -- but I suspect it may have some legal validity as well. --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Agreed, Claire. But I would point out that Connie had NO link back to this thread, and she was not excerpting a single image, but the entire collection. I will contact the owner of the image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matej_Kliman Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Fiddlecollector, Falstaff, Andreas Sender, thank you for your extremely interesting contributions to the early bows frog mechanisms. If anyone had a drawing of the clip-in type mechanism (how it works) I would dearly appreciate it. Matej Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Ah -- I hadn't thought of that distinction. I imagine the important thing is to maintain proper attribution/ownership. It's so easy to lose attributions -- I have a folder of copied images, some of which I'd like to post at times, but I've lost track of where they came from... --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 One of the things I hope this thread can accomplish is to re-establish such lost links between an image and it's creator. I know I have images that, like yours, I've forgotten where they came from. I think we should post them here (if appropriate) and ask the other members if they can help track down the sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 If I'm reading correctly, the ivory bow which FiddleCollector posted is stamped Vuillaume. Here is another of his experiements, from a recent Da Salo auction. The interesting side note to this post is that a friend of mine has recently played one of these bows and thought it was quite remarkable (and apt to the music of the time of its creation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Matej_Kliman Fiddlecollector, Falstaff, Andreas Sender, thank you for your extremely interesting contributions to the early bows frog mechanisms. If anyone had a drawing of the clip-in type mechanism (how it works) I would dearly appreciate it. Matej Not a drawing, but this should make it clear: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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