Omobono Posted December 28, 2005 Report Share Posted December 28, 2005 Hmm....... They are good and I know at least one book where they are published. I wonder if THIS site makes any acknowledgement of their source? (I don't see any.....) http://library.thinkquest.org/27178/en/section/2/2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 Okay, Okay. Surely the makers and dealers and collectors in the forum have some images to post to this thread. Things we might have refereneced in previous threads and likely will again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Shillitoe Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 quote: ______________________________ Originally posted by: yuen Please also define a few popular measurements called " some kind of stops " ? "Stops" from what point to what point ? ______________________________ I think the stop is the distance from the center of the bridge to the edge of the top. It is the dimension shown as 19.5 or 19.8 cm in the earlier diagram. I think it is also referred to as the mensur. What about the "eyebrow"? I remember this being discussed earlier as a feature of some early makers, but the search function does not reveal it. Very useful thread falstaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 quote: Originally posted by: falstaff Okay, Okay. Surely the makers and dealers and collectors in the forum have some images to post to this thread. Things we might have refereneced in previous threads and likely will again... So far, you all are being rather thorough... Honestly, with the holidays I've only had a chance to skim, but I'll take a closer look in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Oh... One thing came to mind that I haven't noticed... Guy, on the photos of the Cuypers you pulled the profile of the scroll from earlier in the thread... the purfling corner joints are clearly "butt joints" as compared to miter joints. If the image that you have isn't high enough res, let me know by email and I'll send you a closeup. In addition, photos of mitered joints and "bee stings" might be nice for comparison. Other stuff... excuse me if I've just missed it, but (I did say I was skimming!): The modern bow button has a collar and facets. The end of the bow has a nipple that rides under the button (near the collar). I call the center line on the scroll the center line, but I've heard it referred to as a "center ridge". I'm sure the French have a much more romantic sounding name for it. Was the channel mentioned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 A rather extreme example of f-hole lower wing fluting -- from a photo by pahdah_hound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 IIllustration of mitered corner purfling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Illustraation of butt-end corner purlfing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=254804 Bridge Profile This thread has lots of images of bridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted December 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted December 31, 2005 Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 Hi falstaff! Very good, thank you for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Jeffrey Holmes The end of the bow has a nipple that rides under the button (near the collar). And here is an image. Weigh in, folks, and I'll modify illustrations. Here's a second example: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 A series of three bows, each with a "channel" into which the frog fits. The first is a Vuillaume style, rounded channel. The second, a Hill octagonal, where the channel continues (as does the Vuillaume version) to the end of the stick. The bow is a Retford. The third, a bow by ex-Hill maker Garner Wilson, shows a version of the channel that stops short of the end of the stick. This modified channel was introduced by Hills in 1926 (thanks JH). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Here are three images contributed by Omobono that I neglected to resize and post in-line: Some Italian: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Just came across this unusual frog/channel setup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omobono Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Here are a few more bow terms I don't think have been mentioned. three-part button solid button parisian eye peal eye (droplert eye) silver rings whalebone winding silver wnding stamp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: falstaff A series of three bows, each with the Vuillaume style "Channel" into which the frog fits. The Channel consists of a scooped out lower three facets (in an octagonal bow). Which runs to the end of the stick in earlier examples (Middle Bow, a Retford), and modified by the Hills around 1917 to stop short (third example from a Garner Wilson bow) The first example is, I believe, a round bow. Of unknown origin. Just a couple of minor clarifications/corrections: The rounded channel style was most common on Vuillaume bows (and copied by many later on). The shaft shape was not a factor for using a channel, or for using either style of channel, as the butt end of a round bow is octagonal anyway. I've always been under the impression that Retford redesigned the Hill style channel (to stop short of the end of the shaft) in the '20s (I was told this by William Watson), but I could certainly be wrong. Guy; where did you get the 1917 date? Concerning the photo including frog buttons: Most "silver" buttons are actually "capped" over a core of ebony (and the screw is tapped into the ebony core). Although there are a few exceptions, solid metal buttons were usually used in commercial applications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 The man who owned the Retford pictured here had it dated between 1907 and 1917 -- and one of the determining factors whoever dated it gave to being able to put it that far back was the fact that the channel went to the end of hte stick. I may have misunderstood, but I thought he gave 1917 as the date of the change. However, if W.D. Watson says otherwise, I'll go with Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 I believe William Watson mentioned 1926 for the change... and I think that date was noted in a VSA talk that Bill gave in the early '80s as well... so I'll stick (sorry for the pun) with that date for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: Jeffrey Holmes Concerning the photo including frog buttons: Most "silver" buttons are actually "capped" over a core of ebony (and the screw is tapped into the ebony core). When I said solid or solid silver, I didn't mean to suggest there wasn't a core of ebony. Thanks for the nudge to clarity. I've never seen a truly solid button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 quote: Originally posted by: falstaff When I said solid or solid silver, I didn't mean to suggest there wasn't a core of ebony. Thanks for the nudge to clarity. I've never seen a truly solid button. They do exist... I'll try to remember to snap a shot next time one comes around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 A second taxonomy for the bow tip, with a proposal for two additional features that bear distinguishing: Sweep and Forehead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted January 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 http://www.vanzandtviolins.com/Amati_CT_Scan.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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