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Omobono
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I'm impressed with the spotting talent out there........

Like to test your skills again with another set?

You will have seen from the last set there is a kind of logic to the game as well as

an eye for detail, so you don't need to be an expert to join in.

Again, try to pick the one fiddle that doesn't belong, if you can.

1211en.jpg

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I may be just as wrong as the last time but... From left to right. I see different features on all of them yet again, but the placement and size of the f's jump out at me. My guess is the #4 from the left. I see smaller lower f holes, as well as the less pronounced corners from the others. It is the most appealing in overall form for my taste also.

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I thought about choosing #4. You're right, #4 has more delicate corners, which fit with the more delicate f-holes. But the last quiz had instruments by different family members, and it seems to me that #3 is more different because of the very different model. The others seem more like variations on a theme, which could easily arise within a family or teaching line.

Of course, I haven't gotten so far as to postulate age or location yet... I'm hoping the appraisal/ID experts chime in...

--Claire

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#2. Look at the position of the lower f-hole eyes relative to the corners. One doesn't see them that low all too often.

#1 could be Florence. #3 and #5 could perhaps be Guarneri family (excepting del Gesu). Is the answer perhaps that #2 is the only one which isn't Italian?

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Anyone for #5? It's feeling neglected, and it fact, it's my favorite of the set.

Why? It says to me brash self-assuredness, flamboyance and idiosyncracy.

F-holes have been mentioned, so here is a close-up for you (not as clear as it might be.....)

fffffe.jpg

I'll follow with another set of the same makers shortly ( - to confuse you still further?)

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#5's f-holes are very upright, almost parallel to the strings. Wide between the f's, but delicate upper stems and wings. Looks like a Montagnana.

#3's f-holes have big upper holes, very round, kind of blunt upper wings. Reminds me of Guarneri family, maybe Peter of Mantua-ish.

Thanks for making the images a little bigger.

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Thus far only one of the makers has been correctly nominated, and that was for the wrong fiddle.

Maybe another set may help a little if my samples are not completely typical.

Love this second #5 as well!

(sorry the quality and style of photography varies so much - probably not helpful)

Are you getting that "sinking" feeling you're not going to solve this?

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ok, the third fiddle has very square top bouts, but the 5th one has a very large lower "half" (sorry, don't know the technical term)...I agree that #1 looks newer, but ti is still in the same style as #2,and 4, except that the lower corners on 4 are more pointed and #5 corners are more erect...so there is my opinion...I'm not real sure, but if I had to pick, I would say #4, but then the c bouts on #3 are sooo looong...ach

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Looking at the closeup of the ffs, all have large lower eyes except #4. All except #4 seem to have more parallel sides of the stem, at least more so than #4 (not as obvious when looking at the sets).

Interesting that #3's C's do not look as long on second set.

On #2 in set 1, the R ff is place much higher than the left. Any makers noted for that? (although this doesn't happen on set 2).

I am amazed at the difference that the ffs make in the overall appearnance of a violin. Look at #5 in both sets; they have a different look, in large part, I think, due to the differnt style of ffs.

I will go with #4 being the oddball, because of the thicker edges, the shorter corners, and the ffs being different than the others.

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Oh no... the puns are flying...

I've been quietly watching, but I'm off to my wife's office party tonight so I'll probably miss the end... and I couldn't resist.

So, Omobono, what you're saying is that the guessing on four of the makers has hit a log jam and the odd fellow out is just Mil(ling) a(rou)n(d).

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Mauricio, You're closing in. and others are arriving at some consensus,

#4 is the outsider, or land-lover, the rest are:

1. Deconet

2. Montagnana

3. Goffriller

5. Santo Serafin

I ws tempted to put up some cellos, Venezia being the home of some of the finest, but my own unfamiliarlity with them discouraged me.

I'm sorry, the Guarneri, didn't get a look in.

Which leaves the identity of 4 to resolve.

At the time, 17th, 18th Cent., Bescia and Cremona were divided by a border wich may have prevented the flow of ideas and accounted for the quite distinct styles that developed. Brescia appears to have been within Venetian territory, so the outsider was from............?

BTW Did Stephan Grapelli own or play a Santo Serafin at one time?

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