Cello auction fraud

[kathyk]

Well this one is pretty blatant, says he played it for 30 years but just bought it a month ago, 'evidence' would be gone except for the feedback...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...ewItem&item=7368784792

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...=10178&item=7359647426

So, what is usually done in a case like this?

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OK the auction is on again, let's watch.

[Jimbow]

Kathy,

I don't know what can or will be done but that is excellent detective work !

Too bad eBay doesn't have people with your diligence on their staff.

[priya]

I can't say that the cellos are identical, the red one's pictures are too small, all the detail is lost.

Obviously the colors are different. my impression is that there has been a label transference.

He may in fact played the cello for 30 years as he said he did, but merely added a label.

But who is to say/

[kathyk]

Scroll & pegs look like a match, to me. Also I think the finish is dark but is in very lighted situation in old auction, similar kind of 'blotchy' look.. I think they are just reselling the entire cello.

[raspritz]

I agree that circumstances suggest they are probably the same cello, but the mark on the left side of the back is really the only thing that can be discerned (other than the label and buyer/seller being the same) given the poorly lit and small photos. I doubt the case would hold up in court.

[bean_fidhleir]

I thought Peter1976's disclaimer was revealing: Aufgrund gesetzlicher Bestimmungen verkaufe ich als Privatperson ohne jeglicher arten an Garantie und Gewärleistungen !!! "for legal reasons I'm selling this as a private person without any sort of guarantee or waranty".

Perhaps it would be worthwhile mailing Peter and asking him whether the cello Gelsingbach is trying to sell is the same one Peter sold him a month ago?

[kathyk]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...ewItem&item=7371181735

OK they are firing up the cello auction again, perhaps reserve is under $3K now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by:

bean_fidhleir

I thought Peter1976's disclaimer was revealing: Aufgrund gesetzlicher Bestimmungen verkaufe ich als Privatperson ohne jeglicher arten an Garantie und Gewärleistungen !!! "for legal reasons I'm selling this as a private person without any sort of guarantee or waranty".

Perhaps it would be worthwhile mailing Peter and asking him whether the cello Gelsingbach is trying to sell is the same one Peter sold him a month ago?

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That might be interesting, but ebay might view it as auction tampering or whatnot, so I would be hesitant.

[escargofast]

yes they are the same cello, the lighting in the original auction

is really bright which could cause the red hues to come out.

 If you look at the back of both cello's side by side and

examine the grain pattern it is the same.  Lighting can really

change the looks of an instrument. 

[escargofast]

From what I know about auction tampering, you can't interfere with

the bidders of an auction.  You could ask peter a question,

when researching a seller or buyer contacting other people through

there feedback is safe to do, as long as you do not contact any

bidders until the auction is over.  You could contact

Gelsingbach, and ask him if he has played this for 30 yrs., you may

be a potential buyer!  If you get a response, ask him if this

is the same cello he bought a month ago.  He could also say

there is a language barrier, he MEANT to say it has been played for

30 yrs.  

[Richf]

Sorry, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with buying something on ebay and quickly reselling it. In this case, the reseller has actually added some value by more accurately describing the instrument. I think someone else (like Tarisio) would make much more money yet by further improving the photos. If the concern here is with the statement that "I played it for 30 years," that misses the mark. I believe that was his poor translation of "I have played cello for 30 years." In any case, who would pay extra for a product just because a seller says he has used it for a long time? The disclaimer in the sale is standard for all German auctions. I wish someone would make ebay require that for U.S. sales, too.

[kathyk]

quote:

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Originally posted by:

Richf

Sorry, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with buying something on ebay and quickly reselling it. In this case, the reseller has actually added some value by more accurately describing the instrument. I think someone else (like Tarisio) would make much more money yet by further improving the photos. If the concern here is with the statement that "I played it for 30 years," that misses the mark. I believe that was his poor translation of "I have played cello for 30 years." In any case, who would pay extra for a product just because a seller says he has used it for a long time? The disclaimer in the sale is standard for all German auctions. I wish someone would make ebay require that for U.S. sales, too.

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Yes, you make some good points. I don't know why it struck me as being so wrong at first, on the grand scale it's not that bad, especially compared to some other ebay auctions.

A cello in use professionally for 30 years would definitely be more desirable than one just purchased 30 days ago, though, all else being equal.

[raymanrmd123]

I emailed the seller and he said it was the same cello that he had bought in the earlier auction; he's just trying to turn a profit on it.

[bean_fidhleir]

(virtual deletion)

[bean_fidhleir]

quote:

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Originally posted by:

Richf

If the concern here is with the statement that "I played it for 30 years," that misses the mark. I believe that was his poor translation of "I have played cello for 30 years."

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That's an interesting thought. What would you see the original German being, then? (I can't think of a way to make it come out right)