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Anyone bidding at Tarisio?


Elaine
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Elaine:

I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

S. Hersh

: I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: out of going for. Anybody else?

: Elaine Dowling

: Norman, OK

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Stefan and Elaine,

Thanks for the words of support. This is certainly an exciting adventure. We have managed to gather a good group of instruments at reasonable prices, but I am as curious as you are if the trade is ready to bid over the net. There are lots of advantages to bidding that way, but it is new. Having been an auction participant for over 15 years, I did want to try to eliminate some of the major pitfalls that are present. The main one that should be of concern to everyone is authenticity. This has been such a huge problem for years and was one of the main reasons we started this venture. To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know.

Christopher Reuning

: Elaine:

: I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: S. Hersh

: : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : Elaine Dowling

: : Norman, OK

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"To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know."

Christopher,

Butterfield and Butterfield's offers a guarantee similar to what you have stated and always has. Our guarantee, however extends for 6 months instead of 25 days. If a buyer proves through written statements from recognized experts in the field that the instrument is other than represented in the catalog, they are eligible for a full refund of the purchase price. I believe the other major auction houses offer a similar guarantee, but cannot say for certain.

Best of luck to you - the auction looks pretty fantastic!

Todd

: Christopher Reuning

: : Elaine:

: : I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: : S. Hersh

: : : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : : Elaine Dowling

: : : Norman, OK

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Todd, With all due respect and upon reading your conditions of sale, that does not appear to be entirely accurate. It seems that you refund your fees to the buyer once the item you sold is proven fake, but then refer the buyer to the original consignor for remedy of the purchase price. In fact your conditions of sale read, " all statements contained....as to authorship, period,....are qualified statements of opinion and not representations or warranties."

The other auction houses have other qualifiers such as Sotheby's which requires that it be a proven counterfeit made after 1870 in order for them to consider a refund. Not much help if you buy what you think is an Amati and it turns out to be a Dutch violin from 1780.

Admittedly, it is difficult to write a legal guarantee

that comprehensively covers all scenarios and covers the buyer entirely without exposing the auctionhouse to undue liablity, but the proof is in the cataloging.

Without taking aim at any auction house in particular,

I believe expertise is sadly substandard and a treacherous minefield for uninitiated buyers.

: "To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know."

: Christopher,

: Butterfield and Butterfield's offers a guarantee similar to what you have stated and always has. Our guarantee, however extends for 6 months instead of 25 days. If a buyer proves through written statements from recognized experts in the field that the instrument is other than represented in the catalog, they are eligible for a full refund of the purchase price. I believe the other major auction houses offer a similar guarantee, but cannot say for certain.

: Best of luck to you - the auction looks pretty fantastic!

: Todd

: : Christopher Reuning

: : : Elaine:

: : : I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: : : S. Hersh

: : : : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : : : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : : : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : : : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : : : Elaine Dowling

: : : : Norman, OK

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Christopher,

Please understand that while our "Limitation on Liability" is indeed as you detail below, our section 9 of the conditions of sale details what I have also previously mentioned. Furthermore, I can promise you with every fiber of my being that regardless of what is stated in the catalog, Butterfield's would undoubtedly refund the purchase price of any instrument found to be fake or otherwise misrepresented in the catalog. We certainly don't have the powerful lawyers that Sotheby's and Christies do, and therefore it is much easier for us to cancel the sale and refund the money than to go to court or fight the case in some way. It is certainly not in our best interest, nor is it for you, to develop a reputation for selling fake or otherwise misrepresented items at auction.

Todd

: Todd, With all due respect and upon reading your conditions of sale, that does not appear to be entirely accurate. It seems that you refund your fees to the buyer once the item you sold is proven fake, but then refer the buyer to the original consignor for remedy of the purchase price. In fact your conditions of sale read, " all statements contained....as to authorship, period,....are qualified statements of opinion and not representations or warranties."

: The other auction houses have other qualifiers such as Sotheby's which requires that it be a proven counterfeit made after 1870 in order for them to consider a refund. Not much help if you buy what you think is an Amati and it turns out to be a Dutch violin from 1780.

: Admittedly, it is difficult to write a legal guarantee

: that comprehensively covers all scenarios and covers the buyer entirely without exposing the auctionhouse to undue liablity, but the proof is in the cataloging.

: Without taking aim at any auction house in particular,

: I believe expertise is sadly substandard and a treacherous minefield for uninitiated buyers.

: : "To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know."

: : Christopher,

: : Butterfield and Butterfield's offers a guarantee similar to what you have stated and always has. Our guarantee, however extends for 6 months instead of 25 days. If a buyer proves through written statements from recognized experts in the field that the instrument is other than represented in the catalog, they are eligible for a full refund of the purchase price. I believe the other major auction houses offer a similar guarantee, but cannot say for certain.

: : Best of luck to you - the auction looks pretty fantastic!

: : Todd

: : : Christopher Reuning

: : : : Elaine:

: : : : I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: : : : S. Hersh

: : : : : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : : : : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : : : : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : : : : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : : : : Elaine Dowling

: : : : : Norman, OK

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Todd, I am happy to hear you say that you intend to stand behind what you are selling. In fact I believe the majority of other houses usually do as well. Too bad their conditions of sale do not legally guarantee this to the customer. Nevertheless, I wish some more "fibers of their beings" were devoted to getting the attributions correct in the first place. Then I could understand where the 25% commissions were going.

: Christopher,

: Please understand that while our "Limitation on Liability" is indeed as you detail below, our section 9 of the conditions of sale details what I have also previously mentioned. Furthermore, I can promise you with every fiber of my being that regardless of what is stated in the catalog, Butterfield's would undoubtedly refund the purchase price of any instrument found to be fake or otherwise misrepresented in the catalog. We certainly don't have the powerful lawyers that Sotheby's and Christies do, and therefore it is much easier for us to cancel the sale and refund the money than to go to court or fight the case in some way. It is certainly not in our best interest, nor is it for you, to develop a reputation for selling fake or otherwise misrepresented items at auction.

: Todd

: : Todd, With all due respect and upon reading your conditions of sale, that does not appear to be entirely accurate. It seems that you refund your fees to the buyer once the item you sold is proven fake, but then refer the buyer to the original consignor for remedy of the purchase price. In fact your conditions of sale read, " all statements contained....as to authorship, period,....are qualified statements of opinion and not representations or warranties."

: : The other auction houses have other qualifiers such as Sotheby's which requires that it be a proven counterfeit made after 1870 in order for them to consider a refund. Not much help if you buy what you think is an Amati and it turns out to be a Dutch violin from 1780.

: : Admittedly, it is difficult to write a legal guarantee

: : that comprehensively covers all scenarios and covers the buyer entirely without exposing the auctionhouse to undue liablity, but the proof is in the cataloging.

: : Without taking aim at any auction house in particular,

: : I believe expertise is sadly substandard and a treacherous minefield for uninitiated buyers.

: : : "To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know."

: : : Christopher,

: : : Butterfield and Butterfield's offers a guarantee similar to what you have stated and always has. Our guarantee, however extends for 6 months instead of 25 days. If a buyer proves through written statements from recognized experts in the field that the instrument is other than represented in the catalog, they are eligible for a full refund of the purchase price. I believe the other major auction houses offer a similar guarantee, but cannot say for certain.

: : : Best of luck to you - the auction looks pretty fantastic!

: : : Todd

: : : : Christopher Reuning

: : : : : Elaine:

: : : : : I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: : : : : S. Hersh

: : : : : : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : : : : : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : : : : : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : : : : : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : : : : : Elaine Dowling

: : : : : : Norman, OK

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: :will the minimum bids be obvious?

Mimi,

Yes, the minimum bid amounts will be very obvious. The auction software will display both the current high-bid amount and the minimum amount that you must bid to become the high-bidder on any particular item. This information updates itself automatically and the software will refuse bids which don't meet the minimum. Placing bids is actually very easy. It's even easier than ebay...

Thanks for your curiosity...

Jason Price

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: Todd, I am happy to hear you say that you intend to stand behind what you are selling. In fact I believe the majority of other houses usually do as well. Too bad their conditions of sale do not legally guarantee this to the customer. Nevertheless, I wish some more

"fibers of their beings" were devoted to getting the attributions correct in the first place. Then I could understand where the 25% commissions were going.

: : Christopher,

: : Please understand that while our "Limitation on Liability" is indeed as you detail below, our section 9 of the conditions of sale details what I have also previously mentioned. Furthermore, I can promise you with every fiber of my being that regardless of what is stated in the catalog, Butterfield's would undoubtedly refund the purchase price of any instrument found to be fake or otherwise misrepresented in the catalog. We certainly don't have the powerful lawyers that Sotheby's and Christies do, and therefore it is much easier for us to cancel the sale and refund the money than to go to court or fight the case in some way. It is certainly not in our best interest, nor is it for you, to develop a reputation for selling fake or otherwise misrepresented items at auction.

: : Todd

: : : Todd, With all due respect and upon reading your conditions of sale, that does not appear to be entirely accurate. It seems that you refund your fees to the buyer once the item you sold is proven fake, but then refer the buyer to the original consignor for remedy of the purchase price. In fact your conditions of sale read, " all statements contained....as to authorship, period,....are qualified statements of opinion and not representations or warranties."

: : : The other auction houses have other qualifiers such as Sotheby's which requires that it be a proven counterfeit made after 1870 in order for them to consider a refund. Not much help if you buy what you think is an Amati and it turns out to be a Dutch violin from 1780.

: : : Admittedly, it is difficult to write a legal guarantee

: : : that comprehensively covers all scenarios and covers the buyer entirely without exposing the auctionhouse to undue liablity, but the proof is in the cataloging.

: : : Without taking aim at any auction house in particular,

: : : I believe expertise is sadly substandard and a treacherous minefield for uninitiated buyers.

: : : : "To reassure buyers a bit more we are offering an explicite guarantee of authenticity for 25 days. That means that if you can show, through other respected expert opinion, that an instrument that we sold "by the maker" is not, than we offer a full refund. We are the first to offer this as far as I know."

: : : : Christopher,

: : : : Butterfield and Butterfield's offers a guarantee similar to what you have stated and always has. Our guarantee, however extends for 6 months instead of 25 days. If a buyer proves through written statements from recognized experts in the field that the instrument is other than represented in the catalog, they are eligible for a full refund of the purchase price. I believe the other major auction houses offer a similar guarantee, but cannot say for certain.

: : : : Best of luck to you - the auction looks pretty fantastic!

: : : : Todd

: : : : : Christopher Reuning

: : : : : : Elaine:

: : : : : : I have a few clients who have expressed serious interest in the Tarisio auction offerings. I expect that there will be interest from others as well. I do have a high regard for the organizers of the auction and a degree of faith in the concept behind the auction so I would not be surprised to see it go well for the organizers. Still, retail buyers should try to understand the pitfalls of auction buying before bidding.

: : : : : : S. Hersh

: : : : : : : I'm curious since the Tarisio acutions have been discussed here

: : : : : : : and the catalogue is now online, how many people are planning

: : : : : : : on bidding? There is a bow I am currently trying to talk myself

: : : : : : : out of going for. Anybody else?

: : : : : : : Elaine Dowling

: : : : : : : Norman, OK

I've been reading all of this and I really want to know where I can look online at the catologue of instruments being refferred too. Would someone be so kind as to tell me?

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