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DR. S

Bragging or Jealousy?

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How come people can freely talk about where they went to school and wear shirts and hats and stuff with their Alma Mater insignias on them and that is okay, that is unless you went to Juilliard. I have a Juilliard T-shirt I almost never wear because I'm tired of all the comments about it being a vanity shirt. I also often avoid telling people I went there because I often get a response like they think I'm bragging, I'm speaking mostly of musicians in these response modes, other people just think it's neat. I worked hard to get there and not many do from where I came from, why must I feel like I'm not being PC by being proud that I went there, and yes even enjoyed it?

Anybody else get similar 'vibes'

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I think it is great that you went to Juilliard! Wear the shirt and enjoy!!!!

[This message has been edited by AnneS (edited 07-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by AnneS (edited 07-27-2000).]

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P.S- Is it bragging if I tell people "I know people who went to Juilliard? wink.gifWell, probably it is, since I don't really know too many of you that well, but it is still fun to say it once in a while!

[This message has been edited by AnneS (edited 07-27-2000).]

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HKV -

I was a Lincer student. I was only there for 2 years around '80 and never graduated, but it was a terrific life experience for a southern boy. Your favorite violinist - Nadia, had her lesson right before me in the Delay studio next door. I studied chamber music with Joel Krosnik - he was great.

Others who were there when I was - Wynton Marsalis, Robert Duffy, 'Jimmy' Linn, Paul Neubauer. Is that name dropping? I really only knew Wynton a little bit, the others were just we were there at the same time.

When were you in the pre-college?

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Oh yeah, by the way, you can now get Juilliard Shirts on the internet from the Juilliard gift shop. They didn't have any available when I was a student, my only piece of memorabilia from those days is one of the posters they had up on broadway advertising and evening of chamber music at Alice Tulley that I took part in. I've got it hanging in my living room - Vanity!

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You should be proud that you went to Juilliard. There's a difference--a hugh difference--between bragging and being proud of what you have accomplished. Forget about what others think. Life is too short. People who think it's a vanity shirt are probably the same people who wish they had enough talent to make it through one day at Juilliard.

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Or maybe since you can get shirts in the gift shop other musicians think you really didn't go there but just bought the shirt? Then they think you're lying when you say you did.

Anyway, it's your shirt. Go ahead and wear it and forget whatever anyone else thinks about it.

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Truth is, if you're not dropping it into every sentence, they're probably jealous and/or feeling inferior.

It's their problem not yours. Wear it and enjoy!

My 2cents: My personal reasons for why someone would want to wear an "Alma Mater" shirt: you went there (ie. alumni), you're going there, you're aspiring to go there, you have relatives (ie. children) there, you've taught there, you're a major financial or administrative supporter, you got it as a freebie (free is free), or you just like the institution (very suspect motive on this one). Personally, I don't see the logic of wearing it if, when someone asks if you went there, you have to say "ah…no, I just like the shirt".

[This message has been edited by mthss (edited 07-27-2000).]

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I guess I wasn't really looking for justification to wear the T-shirt, but was more interested in the phenomena that surrounds or produces the 'Mystique'of Juilliard that seems to seperate it out from other schools - even places like Harvard or MIT.

Actually I believe having gone to Curtis is more of an accomplishment - they wouldn't take me (okay in my defense I was already too old when I auditioned). And I'm very impressed with people out of Eastman as well, and they seem to have received a fuller more well rounded education to boot.

I am happy that I went to Juilliard, and I am not ashamed of it in any way. I especially love the question about how come I'm an engineer (one of my favotite lines is to tell people that I am probably the only Juilliard trained engineer they'll ever meet) - I've just noticed a different reaction to this place as an alma mater than any other school I've come across. And at times, especialy among some musicians I feel a sense of coldness in reaction to it.

If someone asks I tell them, but I rarely offer it up. I have found that it does capture the attention of people on my engineering resume' though.

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I think any hostility may come from Juilliard's status as the Harvard Business School of conservatories. Not necessarily the best in all departments, or with the most appropriately-trained graduates for every situation, but the institution that defines the category for many.

And, as with HBS, many folk have learned to heartily dislike at least one alum for cutthroat political M.O. and arrogance above and beyond the call of his usefulness. If that's not you, then why worry?

[This message has been edited by Stephen (edited 07-27-2000).]

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The people who "think [you're] bragging" simply because you wear a shirt from a school you attended are small, petty people. I'm surprised you pay attention to them. Not to mention the fact that their premise (which I see is shared by some posters here) is flawed. Juilliard graduates its fair share of duds (I've had some as grad students), and does not give students as well-rounded a musical education as a number of other institutions. And while its very top talents do go on to make a name for themselves, so do those from Curtis and other schools. My classmates, at another institution included Nai-Yuan Hu, Gary Hoffman, and the current concertmasters of the Cleveland, Montreal, and Pittsburgh symphonies. For both university positions I've held, the runner-up applicants were Julliard grads. In short, telling me you're from Juilliard doesn't get you very far in my eyes. Like in anything else, show me what you can do, don't tell me where you studied.

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Wear the shirt. If you won't wear it, I'll wear it and tell people I'm wearing it for you because you don't want to be a braggart.

Best regards,

Theresa

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I think people expect students of Julliard to be arrogant and snotty people... not that it's true, but there are always a few people to fit the stereotype and ruin it for everyone else.

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I *am* curious, Dr. S, how you ended up as an engineer post-Juilliard, if you'd care to share!

The only people I've noticed who almost always consistently wear their class rings -- more subtle than T-shirts but nonetheless distinctive -- are graduates of the US military academies, and graduate of MIT. I suppose this reflects the amount of torture they went through. smile.gif

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I love to play with people of whom I "should be" jealous. I learn so much that way.

I could always brag, well I went to MSM (Manhattan School of Music) and it is #2, which ain't bad. But since I was only aged 10-12 at the time it doesn't count for diddly-squat, except to teach me "teacher anxiety" and other sources of intimidation.

Like most of us oldsters, I can probably say "everything I was taught, I forgot, what I know, I figured out myself."

Andy

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Okay Lydia,

The path from music to engineering was not a clear cut one. I believe first I got disenchanted with the music profession. I just met too many pro's who were doing the things that I aspired to do, but who were unhappy doing it. Many fellow students who graduated and went on to major orchestra postitions brought back horror stories of what it was like. I could not subject my love of music, the passion on my life to this mistreatment.

There were other fators, frustration in achieveing the skill level I wanted to achieve (nothing new here). A bit of a feeling of being an outsider and a disagreement with the Juilliard Administration about how many years I needed to spend there to get my masters also helped.

I decided that I could do something else and always keep music as a part of my life, and this way I feel that I preserved this joy. So I started taking some classes at a local state university and ended up in Engineering. 20 years later, althought there are times that I would definitely rather be playing my instrument, I do think I made a wise decision. The great thing about engineering is that you get such a great perception about how the world operates physically.

My sharpest pangs of regret come when I occassionally wonder how good I could have been. I guess there is something to be said forlooking back on your life and being able to say you at least strived to reach your potential at something. But regardless, I do know that my love of playing is undiminished and I have the luxury of doing it for fun and never have to feel the tedium of a job associated with my music making.

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