Antiquing a new violin

[Walter]

I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

[Paganini]

: I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

Personally, I'd feel bad to have any nicks, scratches, and cracks on my violin. If you want some cracks on yours, either drop it to the ground, or cut it. Maybe you can just play the fiddle.

[Da]

: I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

Just an opinion.

Regards,

DA

[Bill Palmer]

: : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: Just an opinion.

And there are those of us who prefer the look of old violins in general, regardless of whether the instrument in question is a facsimile of any particular "famous antique" - it's a matter of personal preference. The maker's opinion of his work has nothing whatsoever to do with it; indeed, a convincing antiquing job is difficult work, and I've had a number of makers who don't normally antique their work comment very positively on the artful antiquing job on my viola.

I'm not at all convinced the antiquing job will *increase* its value, but I've been told by various dealers and makers that antiqued violins are generally easier to sell. Stradivari may have tried to put perfect varnish coats on his instruments, but they didn't stay looking new for long with the fragility of his varnish. I don't think there's anything wrong with a "new" violin or an "old" one - it's *your* decision. I probably wouldn't opt for an antiqued violin from someone who doesn't do it very often, as a bad antiquing job looks worse than a shiny cheap new factory instrument, in my opinion.

[steveg]

Questions:

1. Is this luthier one of great reknown ? Will he sign the instrument

with a present day manufactureing date, or his going to put a phony

lable in it ?

2. Is this instrument being carved out from scratch

for you, or is it violin in the white (cost about $395.00)

that is being finished for you ??

3. Are you intending to play this violin for a long time,

or sell it quickly ?

4. Do you consider the "antiqueing" to be visually enhancing,

or is it a countfiet way of pumping up value ?

good luck

[mike]

i like it if it is done well, but that is the key. there are several well-known makers (even in the early 19th century) that have antiqued instruments so well that it is hard to distinguish them from originals. i find it tacky though when it is done so uniformly that it looks like some cheap piece of distressed furniture. this was common in the earlier part of this century. i think having the bushed pegs, grafted scroll, wear etc. would be very cool if done nicely. can the dealer show you an example of one that he has done in the past?, on and i have also found that it is far easier to unload antiqued instruments than untouched ones. my only question to the people in the market for these things is why they just don't go ahead and get a genuine old violin. there are tons of pro quality non-italian instruments from $2,500-10,000. that sound great, and are the equal to many much more expensive instruments, and they should hold their value better than a new instrument, or at least be easier to sell.

mike

[PC]

: : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: Just an opinion.

: Regards,

: DA

Right on, DA.

I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

PC

[Paul]

: : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : Just an opinion.

: : Regards,

: : DA

:

: Right on, DA.

: I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

: PC

PC.

Whats your problem with a high school orchestra? You should consider your words ! 50 lashes with a very wet noodle. Also the instrument in question has been labeled a violin not fiddle.

Paul

[Caroline]

: : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : Just an opinion.

: And there are those of us who prefer the look of old violins in general, regardless of whether the instrument in question is a facsimile of any particular "famous antique" - it's a matter of personal preference. The maker's opinion of his work has nothing whatsoever to do with it; indeed, a convincing antiquing job is difficult work, and I've had a number of makers who don't normally antique their work comment very positively on the artful antiquing job on my viola.

: I'm not at all convinced the antiquing job will *increase* its value, but I've been told by various dealers and makers that antiqued violins are generally easier to sell. Stradivari may have tried to put perfect varnish coats on his instruments, but they didn't stay looking new for long with the fragility of his varnish. I don't think there's anything wrong with a "new" violin or an "old" one - it's *your* decision. I probably wouldn't opt for an antiqued violin from someone who doesn't do it very often, as a bad antiquing job looks worse than a shiny cheap new factory instrument, in my opinion.

There is a luthier in Brussels who makes excellent instruments and charges a little extra for the antiquing. In his case, it it just "wearing away the varnish" but no artificial scrapes or knocks. It's extra work for him but does not add value to the instrument. Some people like it, others don't . Question of personal taste.

If you don't want your instrument to look all shiny and new, ask for a darker varnish.

cheers

Caroline

(PS my preference is for modern instruments. As soon as you start repairing an old one, the list of things to be done gets longer and longer. Like repairing an old car.)

[PC]

:

: : : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : : Just an opinion.

: : : Regards,

: : : DA

: :

: : Right on, DA.

: : I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

: : PC

: PC.

: Whats your problem with a high school orchestra? You should consider your words ! 50 lashes with a very wet noodle. Also the instrument in question has been labeled a violin not fiddle.

: Paul

I was trying to make a allusion to the string about beat up fiddles in high school orchestras (some humor just doesn't work on the internet). Last time I checked there was no difference between a violin and a fiddle, I like to use both terms freely.

PC

[Paul]

: :

: : : : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : : : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : : : Just an opinion.

: : : : Regards,

: : : : DA

: : :

: : : Right on, DA.

: : : I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

: : : PC

: : PC.

: : Whats your problem with a high school orchestra? You should consider your words ! 50 lashes with a very wet noodle. Also the instrument in question has been labeled a violin not fiddle.

: : Paul

: I was trying to make a allusion to the string about beat up fiddles in high school orchestras (some humor just doesn't work on the internet). Last time I checked there was no difference between a violin and a fiddle, I like to use both terms freely.

: PC

I recognize your desire to speak freely and use terms interchangeably but I'd like to inform you that the physical difference between a violin and fiddle can be seen in the contour and height of the bridge.

Paul

[Bill Palmer]

:

: : :

: : : : : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : : : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : : : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : : : : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : : : : Just an opinion.

: : : : : Regards,

: : : : : DA

: : : :

: : : : Right on, DA.

: : : : I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

: : : : PC

: : : PC.

: : : Whats your problem with a high school orchestra? You should consider your words ! 50 lashes with a very wet noodle. Also the instrument in question has been labeled a violin not fiddle.

: : : Paul

: : I was trying to make a allusion to the string about beat up fiddles in high school orchestras (some humor just doesn't work on the internet). Last time I checked there was no difference between a violin and a fiddle, I like to use both terms freely.

: : PC

: I recognize your desire to speak freely and use terms interchangeably but I'd like to inform you that the physical difference between a violin and fiddle can be seen in the contour and height of the bridge.

: Paul

Fine, but you should realize that many violin dealers will happily refer to their merchandise as fiddles, even though the price tag may have 7 digits. And Emil Herrman didn't call his home and shop "Violindale", he called it "Fiddledale"...PC's in good company using the terms interchangeably.

[Paul]

: :

: : : :

: : : : : : : I am having a violin made for me, and someone suggested I have it antiqued, as this will increase it's value.

: : : : : : : The luthier says he can either make the finish look like it is worn from much handling, or he can add signs of

: : : : : : : wear, nicks, scratches, worn finish, rebushed peg holes, and imitation cracks. Is any of this of asthetic value?

: : : : : : I would definitely *not* have it antiqued. I am thinking of commissioning a violin. It is going to be a *new*, *personal* model of the maker. If you believe in the maker you choose and, above all, if the maker himself believes in his own originality and craftmanship the result can only be a brand new looking violin. This is the way it has always been with the real masters. Also, won't you be more proud to say: "this is a brand new personal model made for me by such and such guy" rather than "this is a violin that was made to look like a famous antique but has no personality of its own". It's a wannabe...

: : : : : : Just an opinion.

: : : : : : Regards,

: : : : : : DA

: : : : :

: : : : : Right on, DA.

: : : : : I think that antiquing a fiddle is really cheesy no matter how well it has been done. If you want a banged up looking violin, go buy one, there are plenty out there. If you want to accelerate the aging process on your particular one then just handle it carelessly, maybe lend it to a local high school orchestra!

: : : : : PC

: : : : PC.

: : : : Whats your problem with a high school orchestra? You should consider your words ! 50 lashes with a very wet noodle. Also the instrument in question has been labeled a violin not fiddle.

: : : : Paul

: : : I was trying to make a allusion to the string about beat up fiddles in high school orchestras (some humor just doesn't work on the internet). Last time I checked there was no difference between a violin and a fiddle, I like to use both terms freely.

: : : PC

: : I recognize your desire to speak freely and use terms interchangeably but I'd like to inform you that the physical difference between a violin and fiddle can be seen in the contour and height of the bridge.

: : Paul

: Fine, but you should realize that many violin dealers will happily refer to their merchandise as fiddles, even though the price tag may have 7 digits. And Emil Herrman didn't call his home and shop "Violindale", he called it "Fiddledale"...PC's in good company using the terms interchangeably.

Hwoever,

Just where do you get the idea that I don't realize? The issue is the statement about no difference - for the record

Paul

[mike]

there is a medeival instrument (not the viol) hat is called the fiddle that did have 4 strings. it is listed in several books on historical musical instruments, and in the bbc video on the history of bowed instruments- it is definately not a violin by any means.

mike

[William L. Scott professional luthier]

: there is a medeival instrument (not the viol) hat is called the fiddle that did have 4 strings. it is listed in several books on historical musical instruments, and in the bbc video on the history of bowed instruments- it is definately not a violin by any means.

: mike There is medeival fiddle 4 or 5 string called the vielle.