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My Mendelssohn Concerto 3rd mvt


violinissimo
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This is a HUGE site that invites everyone to upload and share their recordings. Everyone can let the whole world listen to himself perform.

Here is my Mendelssohn concerto 3rd movt. Sorry I cannot make a recording error free. My inherent problem is I make mistakes, and a different one each time. My teacher used to scream and ask why I could not make a mistake the first time, and always do it the second round instead.

http://rapidshare.de/files/4239646/Mendels...issimo.mp3.html

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Where did you get that accompaniment??


I will look into my log file and find the source of the midi file. Also I will tell you where I got the sample SF2 soundfont, all you need is a cheap SoundBlaster (any will do) soundcard, even one that costs only $15, then you can get the not so bad orchestra sound as in my recording.

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bravo! you deserve a big feast of seafood from Aberdin for the great job and all the lost calories.

i am not sure what your music background has been, the fact that you are willing to share your love for music is admirable. and, i am also envious of your computer techinical know-how. it will be cool one day when we can share motion picture files easily on the net.

what kind of violin do you use?

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Here are the links to the mid files, and a freeware software to remove the solo so you can play in its place:

http://midiworld.com/DavidSiu/#B

(Mendelsohn 1 and 3 mvts -

mendlvc1.mid

mendlvc3.mid)

http://www.classicalmidiresource.com/site/...r/bthcncrt.html

A very good Beethoven concerto midi file. There is another one, not bad -

http://www.lvbeethoven.com/Oeuvres/Beethov...i-Concerti.html

Download this software to play the file and silent the solo violin so you can play in its place -

http://www.anvilstudio.com/upgraden.htm

You can write to me if you need more help, though I am not a great expert. If you have a sound blaster card (cheap one will do, about $15 to $30) then you can use a good sound font. That is what I got in my Beethoven, Brahms and Mendelssohn.

http://bennetng.kc-studio.com/AnotherGS/AnotherGS.html

Cannot find a good Brahms concerto, I just adjusted some tempo in the beginning and recorded a little of it. There are many Tschaikovsly concertos, though, but it will take me some time to start record it. Cannot find a Bruch, only piano accompaniment, no orchestra. There are also a few piano Mozart accompaniments. Very few Beethoven or Brahms sonatas.

A good Butterfly Lovers concerto which I also recorded a little bit (badly done):

http://www.liangzhu.org/video/liangzhu.mid

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thanks for your links on the earlier post. since i am good in neither violin nor computer, i hope some others will find better use for them.

may be it is the recording quality that did not do justice to this violin, but i do not hear much volume and projection. you think it sounds better than italians of the same price range?

thanks and regards

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Austen, why can't you stand menuhin, he is not so bad.

So can you stand me?


Oh no, I LOVE Menuhin. He's my favorite violinist, by far. I just dont like his recording of the Mendelssohn, the ONLY recording that I can listen to (that I have ever heard) is by Perlman.

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Oh no, I LOVE Menuhin. He's my favorite violinist, by far. I just dont like his recording of the Mendelssohn, the ONLY recording that I can listen to (that I have ever heard) is by Perlman.


WHICH Menuhin recording are you talking about? He recorded the concerto at least FIVE times (there may be some live recordings I am not aware of). And they ARE different!! Menuhin is first (with Enescu, 1938) is MUCH SUPERIOR to his last (with Fruhbeck de Burgos, 1971).

Menuhin's technique went sharply downhill fairly early on (after he was about 30 or so), so in order to hear what he was really capable of doing with this concerto, one ABSOLUTELY MUST listen to his FIRST TWO recordings (with Enescu, and with Furtwangler, 1952), rather than the later ones. If you still do not like his playing after listening to his first two recordings, then you perhaps do not agree with his concept for this concerto.

T.

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>Thanks a lot for sharing the files. How did you find these sites?

I like how your violin sounds. Do you have the 2nd movement as well?

I just look up Googles and search, and follow any other "links" from those web pages. The 2nd mvt is on a Chinese site in Taiwan whos got all 1, 2 and 3rd movts -

http://www.wwwart.com.tw/record/classic_02...46;頌

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A very good effort.

I recommend a lot of intonation work to further enhance the performance.

Also, it would be quite beneficial to a harmonic analysis of the concerto. It will change and enhance your performance a lot.

If you take the begining alone, take notice of the "sweet spots" of your violin. Mendelssohn uses a lot of them on purpose. That E should ring, as should the G and the A.

Good start, and it will be nice to hear it a while later.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
OuchardGadda
..quite beneficial to a harmonic analysis of the concerto. It will change and enhance your performance a lot.

If you take the begining alone, take notice of the "sweet spots" of your violin. Mendelssohn uses a lot of them on purpose. That E should ring, as should the G and the A. Good start, and it will be nice to hear it a while later.

Tks, could you explain what is your meaning of a "harmonic analysis"? Do you mean you always check all the notes to tune them against the open strings?

When you say "sweet spots" do you mean the harmonics (octaves of the open strings)?

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The notes G,D,A,E offer the greatest amount of resonance on the violin. Play an E on the A string, if you hit right on the head you'll hear a bell like tone.

By harmonic analysis, you should learn about which notes are non chord tones, where leading tones or 4ths resolve, and such. One cannot simply play in your own world and expect to sound good. The connection between accompaniment and soloist is most ideally homogenous, though not possible to perfectly achieve this, this "synergy" (forgive me for using such a tiresome buzzword) is what you should be aiming for.

I think a lot slow practice of this movement will really let you express yourself better. Also, you should look at speeding up your vibrato in this movement. In my opinion keeping it at the same speed and width doesn't make much sense.

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quote:


Originally posted by: OuchardGadda

>The notes G,D,A,E offer the greatest amount of resonance on the violin. Play an E on the A string, if you hit right on the head you'll hear a bell like tone.

I see what you mean, since the frequencies of the strings are tuned in fifths, so A = 440Hz, E = 660Hz (3:2), so a chord with B, E, G would have frequencies 495Hz, 660Hz, and 792Hz. Unfortunately, the G string is 195.56Hz, and its harmonic will be 782.22Hz, not the required 792Hz. So would you suggest tuning up the G-string so it can match the E-string?

>By harmonic analysis, you should learn about which notes are non chord tones, where leading tones or 4ths resolve, and such. One cannot simply play in your own world and expect to sound good.

I find Heifetz actually play quite differently from say, Perlman, Oistrakh, etc. Which violinist would you say best agree with your methoc of playing by "harmonic analysis"? Or do they all do "harmonic analysis" very correctly or wrongly, you think?

>The connection between accompaniment and soloist is most ideally homogenous, ..

That is a very good idea. but what happens if you play with an orchestra, but the woodwinds are tuned differently from the brass (which intonation are mainly affected by the pipe overtones)? Also you never perdict what intonation the different string sections will play?

Actually, there are many problems trying to play according to your ideal suggestion, that is why some violin players and teachers actually tune the G and D string deliberately higher and the E lower, so to avoid the "bad" note, the G in the above case, and always oneor more bad note/s each time, depending on the chord. So your suggestion will not work. Also, music is not dependent on "harmonics", otherwise, a violinist (or singer) will never be out of tune because there is only one melody, hence only one note at a time, and cannot be wrong "harmonically".

Or would you show us your recording how you overcome this problem, so I can discover in it your ingenious solution to this historic problem, or else I will point out to you in your playing where the problem appears in each chord/ tune.

This is a very well-researched topic that had been studied at great length over many centuries, which unfortunately not so many violinists are aware or been informed about it. There is not a easy solution to it, but many violinists are ruined trying to apply their own improvised solutions.

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Violinissimo,

Please abandon your patronizing tone. I'm trying to help you.

Harmonic analysis has no right or wrong interpretation. Obviously chords can be right or wrong, but the way in which you work with the harmonic analysis differs from person to person. People like Oistrakh and Heifitz have a good inate sense of harmony.

Some people really like to lean of a 7th, some people like to really accentuate a non chord tone.

Forget all that science geek talk about frequences. Play a G on the A string in 5th position. Listen to the sound it produces. Yes, G is usually tuned up a hair, otherwise something like the first note of the Bruch will sound bad.

These are all things that teachers like Dorothy Delay taught their students, and is employed by all the great solists. I can guarantee you that none of them reduce the problem to a set of numbers and simply let the music do the speaking.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
OuchardGadda

Violinissimo,

Please abandon your patronizing tone. I'm trying to help you.

Harmonic analysis has no right or wrong interpretation. Obviously chords can be right or wrong, but the way in which you work with the harmonic analysis differs from person to person. People like Oistrakh and Heifitz have a good inate sense of harmony.

Some people really like to lean of a 7th, some people like to really accentuate a non chord tone.

Forget all that science geek talk about frequences. Play a G on the A string in 5th position. Listen to the sound it produces. Yes, G is usually tuned up a hair, otherwise something like the first note of the Bruch will sound bad.

These are all things that teachers like Dorothy Delay taught their students, and is employed by all the great solists. I can guarantee you that none of them reduce the problem to a set of numbers and simply let the music do the speaking.

Tks for helping me, I am not trying to make a tone of "patronizing". But just wonder how you make what you say possible. But you already answered - to tune the G "a hair" up.

So what you are saying is that, we should tune the violin so that the intonation is NOT "head-on", but we have to PLAY the intonation "head-on". I think this is not possible, either from a mathematical point of view or any wise. Do you agree that you are not being reasonable?

Unless you tell me that Dorothy Delay plays better to Heifetz, I better stick to the way of Heifetz, and I think Delay is wrong.

I do not do what another person do just because s/he has a big name. I have to reason it. And you cannot assume that I do not understand my maths thoroughly with a completely applicable solution,

so that I should "forget" about it. Maybe I know what I am doing, is that not possible?

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First of all, your way is obviously not working because your intonation is atrocious.

Secondly, you do not understand at all what I am saying. The science of tuning is a highly contentious issue, and there is no such thing as "head on" tuning. Heifitz tuned his G up probably a 16th of a tone, and most quartets will tune the C to E tighter than if they normally tuned in 5ths.

that is besides the point. Your maths will not help you play in tune. What I am saying is, look at the score. Analyze which chords are being played by the accompaniment, and fit your playing into that. Not only is that about intonation, but it's also about expressiveness.

I only mentioned Delay because she was/is the golden standard of violin teaching for the last 30 something years. Heifitz was taught by Leopold Auer. Do you think Heifitz told Auer to shut up because he can play better than him?

You have a lot to learn, and if you ever want to get a conductor to let you play with an orchestra in front of an audience, you have a lot of work to do. If you were more nice about this I wouldn't have to be so frank.

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quote:


Originally posted by:
OuchardGadda

First of all, your way is obviously not working because your intonation is atrocious.

Secondly, you do not understand at all what I am saying. The science of tuning is a highly contentious issue, and there is no such thing as "head on" tuning. Heifitz tuned his G up probably a 16th of a tone, and most quartets will tune the C to E tighter than if they normally tuned in 5ths.

that is besides the point. Your maths will not help you play in tune. What I am saying is, look at the score. Analyze which chords are being played by the accompaniment, and fit your playing into that. Not only is that about intonation, but it's also about expressiveness.

I only mentioned Delay because she was/is the golden standard of violin teaching for the last 30 something years. Heifitz was taught by Leopold Auer. Do you think Heifitz told Auer to shut up because he can play better than him?

You have a lot to learn, and if you ever want to get a conductor to let you play with an orchestra in front of an audience, you have a lot of work to do. If you were more nice about this I wouldn't have to be so frank.

Tks very much for now telling me that my intonation sounds atrocious to you. so that is the reason for saying all those things to help me. Sorry I was not aware of it. You ought to be very frank in the very first place since one man's meat is another man's poision, and I did not know what you meant. Certainly I will not want you to shut up, but rather it is the opposite, to tell me exactly why my playing was sounding so bad to you.

So is my intonation just simply "wrong" so that it may be corrected? Since you said every violinist interpret "harmonic analysis" differently, then how is it that I am so different that I am different in a different manner that my playing sounded atrocious? Is my lack of "harmonic analysis" causing my difference to become atrocious in intonation or expressiveness or both? Or do you mean that only very certain specific note should be different, and the very few specific ones must be same, and then same as what, since you said great violinists may tune the strings differently? You still have not explained what you meant in you first message by "hit right on the head".

If Heifetz "probably" tuned his G string up 1/16th of a tone, then which note/s in which chord should be tuned to the G string, and which ones to which other strings? Or are you sure he did not tune down his E string instead?

And if even great violinists all played differently, how can we aim to play as you said "The connection between accompaniment and soloist is most ideally homogenous, though not possible to perfectly achieve this, this "synergy" (forgive me for using such a tiresome buzzword) is what you should be aiming for"? Everyone in the whole orchestra would probably all play differently too, which surely is the case.

And can you tell me what happens to singers who cannot tune up or down since they have no strings?

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