Roger Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Dear Roth fans, don't miss this one. BTW keep in down to avoid Mr. "PK....". Regards! Roth 1924 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R. Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Pretty violin. If I am learning to do this model type thing, I believe that's a Strad model? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsr Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 Excuse my ignorance but does it really matter what model of some ancient maker it is??? Or do appearance and tone determine it' value??? To this untrained eyes about 99% of the fiddles look alike!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve R. Posted August 12, 2005 Report Share Posted August 12, 2005 The model and how well it's made will affect how the violin sounds and proforms. I'm just trying to see if I am getting a feel for recognising them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 The label is not of a style shown in the 1924 Roth catalog. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guta Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Padah Hound - I don't have a copy of the Roth catalog, but have seen this type of label on several other Roths. The Gothic labels were used in both Bubenreuth and Markneukirchen. There is one illustrated in the Jalovec encyclopedia. I have been trying to determine what this type of label indicates, but have not come to a conclusion so far. All Best, Larry. As far as I can tell, they were only used in the early 20's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Attached is the page from the 1924 Roth catalog showing the labels used that year. I have also seen Roth labels similar to the one in this violin, but not in the catalog. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Option1 Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Jesse, I wonder if your 1924 Roth catalogue lists instruments made in 1924 or if it was published in 1924 and therefore lists the Roth range made in 1923? I realize this is probably drawing a long bow, but thought it was worth asking and MIGHT explain the difference. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guta Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 It would be truly excellent if the E.H. Roth firm, which is still going strong today, would enlighten us on some of these questions. I am sure they must be aware of the ongoing interest on Maestronet. Gentlemen - Would you consider giving us some input? Mit Hoechste verehrung und complimente - All Best, Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatus Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 It's a pretty violin for sure. Something tells me that this violin won't get sold. In my opinion, the reserve price is too high for most people to buy a violin without trying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmm Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 Can someone guess at which model it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guta Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 mmmm - The seller's description says that according to the label it is Strad model. Illuminatus - I certainly would not buy it without inspecting and playing it either. But is that really what you meant, or are there doubts in your mind? I like the overall looks of it, and some arbitrager could easily buy it at or near the reserve and flip it. All Best, Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatus Posted August 13, 2005 Report Share Posted August 13, 2005 I don't have any doubt. The seller informed me that the reserve price is almost $3,000. I don't think there has been a Roth violin on eBay which demanded that kind of price. I am quite fond of pre-WWII Roth violins. The ones that I have tried are very nice instruments and the prices were reasonable. By the way, does any one know which Roth model this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 I don't know about the label, but I think that brandstamp is kind of hard to fake (?) Jesse, do you know how long that first label--the one used on the less expensive models--was used? I have a Roth with that label, and it seems a lot newer than 1920s. Any idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 "brandstamp is kind of hard to fake" I used to think that about bows, too. Given the current feeding frenzy over Roths, the incentives certainly are there to develop the technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guta Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 What about the serial numbers - in Jesse's Roth catalogue it says they all have them, but I have seen one or two with correct label, looking right age, old brand stamp, and no serial number. These from early 20's. Any thoughts? Cheers, Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudall Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Quote: some arbitrager could easily buy it at or near the reserve and flip it. Could you please explain what that means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 He means some savvy dealer could buy it and resell it quickly. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 I really don't know much more about the Roth violins other than what i have learned from the catalog. My info is limited to 1924. My guess is that there were minor differences between the years but likely the info (and labels) would be more or less consistant from year to year. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guta Posted August 14, 2005 Report Share Posted August 14, 2005 Hi Rudall - Arbitrage is something often done with exchange traded commodities such as gold, copper, coffee etc. but mainly with currencies. It means buying the commodity at a certain price in one market, then immediately selling it at a higher price in another. It takes great speed, savvy and luck to make money at this game. "Flipping" is a real estate term used frequently in active markets such as L.A. or N.Y. It means buying a house or apartment, doing some minimal renovation such as painting , new carpeting, landscaping etc.and immediately putting it back on the market at a higher price. This only works in a strong, actively rising market. An entrepreneurial risk- taker could possibly arbitrage the ebay Roth by buying it on ebay for $3,000. and then flip it by sending it to Tarisio where it might bring $5,000. or more. I have never tried something like that, as I don't have the nerves for it. It has nothing at all to do with violins or music! All Best, Larry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 15, 2005 Report Share Posted August 15, 2005 Yes, I guess it would only cost a couple of hundred bucks to ave that brandstamp reproduced, but then you've got to remove the top (or back) and apply the brand and make it look convincing. A lot of work. And you also have to make it appear that the top (or back) hasn't been removed. I just think that's a long walk for a short beer. The problem with those bow stamps that we see is that they don't look convincing--too deep, uneven, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 OK, this is getting strange...that seems like a lot for an ebay purchase. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7342973712 Does anyone else think that the ffs on this violin look like Guarneri? But the label says Strad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatus Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Well, I was totally wrong about this violin. I don't think this violin would reach that kind of price, but it did. The final price is $4,349. I thought only upper reproduction series violins command prices in that range on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 i should contact seller for commision :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illuminatus Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 I got an email from the "seller" through eBay's mail forwarding system. The "seller" was offering me a second chance even though my bid was less than half of the final price and far below the reserve price. What's odd about this is that the User ID of the person who offered me the second chance doesn't match. Speedy-88 appears to be a fairly reputable eBay buyer/seller based in Germany, but the forwarded email came though eBay Malaysia! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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