My new violin, please take a look

[IsraelYang]

Hi

I have been reading your posts for a while, and as an amateur and no formal trainning, I don't really have any constructive things to add to your posts so here's my first post!

This is the new violin I got, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7340748556

I bought one cheap factory outfit on ebay 3 years ago as my first violin, just to start playing and so even if I gave up I'd have nothing to loose. And 3 years later, I am still playing almost everyday and having much fun.

Frankly, being a self-taught, I know very little about violin and violin playing, that's why I am posting here and hoping I can get some feedbacks on this particular violin. I mean it is going to be my violin for many years to come so I'd like to know everything I can about it.

The seller claims there is no cracks or anything ilke that but from one picture, if I am not mistaken, is there a repair crack that connects to one f-hole?

I searched the luthier's (C. Gomph) name on google,

http://www.archivaria.com/BusDbios/BusDbios46.html

His son J. Gomph was a reknown organ master, was born in 1878. And this violin was made in 1923. Assuming C. Gomph had J. Gomph when he was 25, then he probably made this violin when he was 70.

Thank you every for looking and helping

Israel Yang

[apartmentluthier]

The lower f hole crack "looks" stable. The over-varnish is not very attractive, especially when it extends onto the fingerboard. May want to have someone remove that. Looks like he may have done tailpiece as well. :

[Ron MacDonald]

Hi Israel,

The Gomph sticker is probably a repair label.

There also appears to be a repaired crack in the top on the upper treble side.

Good luck with your instrument.

Ron

[Ron MacDonald]

Also, the tailpiece looks much too small for the instrument.

[Brad Dorsey]

It looks like most of the original varnish is gone. This is demonstrated well in the picture of the F holes which shows traces of the original varnish under the end of the fingerboard. And it looks like after the varnish was removed the violin was coated with some sort of clear finish, perhaps sprayed on. The back center joint appears to have separated and been reglued unevenly, as shown by the trace of original varnish along the joint. It looks like there's a knot in the lower bout of the back opposite the chinrest.

[DougP]

I think you got a good deal for the money.

[IsraelYang]

Wow thanks everyone. There is a great wealth of information here!

Kevin, I too wonder about the varnish on the fingerboard now you've mentioned it, do you think it might have to do with the spray on varnish as Brad suggests?

Ron, you are right, the Gomph label probably came from the repair, because it starts with an 'R', should have guessed it.

Brad, I am a painter, from what I know, finish is the same as varnish, and I have heard how much varnish affects the sound to the instrument, so do you think it is good or bad in this case?

Doug, I hope so too, I can't wait to play it in a few days. I even have dreams about it. You know a student gets easily contented.

Again, thank you so much everyone!!

[Brad Dorsey]

Varnish of various types is the finish normally used on violins. I can't comment on the tonal effects of varnish other than to say I've heard many theories which often contradict each other. But one thing that is generally agreed upon is that the original varnish, like the original scroll, is desirable, unless it suffers from some fatal flaw such as not drying. Therefore, I consider it a serious condition flaw in this violin that most of the original varnish is gone. This lack does not necessarily mean that the violin will sound bad.

[GlennYorkPA]

Hi Israel.

It's very endearing to read of your excitment about this violin and how violin playing has enriched your life.

Most of us here have seen, and played many violins and tend to get a bit blase about them. Maybe we are trying to recapture that first thrill we derived from our early instruments, no matter how humble.

I still recall the first one I purchased in a flea market with pocket money (in the face of parental opposition). It meant nothing to anyone else but it enabled me to understand why scales had sharps and flats, to read music and acquire the rudiments of violin technique so I owe it a great debt.

Remember that most violins will outlive their owners so your are merely a custodian of this one for a period. Enjoy it for as long as you can and don't be afraid to report back on how you find it.

[CamQTR]

Hi Israel,

Nice fiddle, I agree. Several things catch my eye. First, on the lower bout of the back, there seems to be an blotch of irregular "curl", or maybe some "defect" in the maple. Myself, I prefer wood with these irregular colorings. Or, is that something in the varnish? Also, the button is not perfectly rounded, it looks somewhat angular. And the top has very wide grain, very interesting to me. I like the color too. Good luck to you, I hope this fiddle brings you many years of musical adventure and discovery!

[pahdah_hound]

Congratualtions!

You managed to find something with some uniqueness, originality and character - all for a bargain price! You can do much worse for more money. Enjoy!!!!

[Fellow]

Hi,

Just say what I have in my mind.

As a player, I would try many violins in violinshop before I buy my second violin. I would budget $1000 or more and would intend to keep it for at least 5 years. In this price range I would not look for name of the makers. (This is not to say your purchase was not a bargain, but you may want a much expensive violin) /yuen/

[IsraelYang]

Brad

Thank you for the explaination. You mention the scroll, I wonder if a grafted scroll usually means it is not the original. If not, why bother for a grafted scroll when it seems more difficult to make?

Glenn

I can very much relate to what you say. I learned most of my music knowledge from a guitar I received as a gift 10 years ago (it was initially a gift to my brother), though I rarely play it anymore but I can easily transfer that knowledge to my violin playing. I will comtemplate on your words a little more, and will report back when I can.

Cam

Thanks for your interesting find! I hope these irregularities will only bring 'good' uniqueness to this piece of instrument. Personally I perfer the darker warmer finish than clear finish like this, but I am still very happy.

Jesse

I have learned and have always enjoyed reading your posts about violion selecting/collecting and the anecdotes. Thank you for dropping in.

yuen

Thank you for your advice! I would budget $1000 or more as well, if I could. I just got out of university with a great debt, and now entering a one year post-graduate program at a college with an overwhelming high tuition. Shamefully I haev to say, I have been looking at the ebay postings for a while, and usually what I look for is if it's a quality hand-made, if it comes with a working bow and chinrest and even better a case, and if there is any need for repair, so I can be sure there is no further investment to this purchase. I also have the concern of being a novice and hobbyist, is it too dandy to own an instrument worth so much that should have belonged to someone much more skilled and dedicated?

[Brad Dorsey]

"I wonder if a grafted scroll usually means it is not the original. If not, why bother for a grafted scroll when it seems more difficult to make?"

Usually a grafted scroll is original. The reason for doing the graft is to keep the original scroll when the neck needs replacing. But sometimes a non-original scroll gets grafted on. Sometimes the graft is done to simulate an old instrument.

[robedney]

Someone earlier mentioned what looks like a sprayed on finish, and that it is also on the fingerboard. You might have some trouble with that -- fingerboards are generally not varnished for good reasons. However, the fix is easy -- just remove the finish from the fingerboard alone if it becomes a problem. Congratulations on your find -- and enjoy it!

[IsraelYang]

Brad

It's very interesting to hear about it, thank you.

robedney

Thanks for your advice, I will be careful.

[miles]

>is it too dandy to own an instrument worth so much that should have belonged to someone much more skilled and dedicated?

I hope not. I am too a novice with a few months of private lessons in the past. But I have the luck to own some beautiful violins with good tone. Of course, it is a waste for the violins, but it is such a joy when you know people who can play well to play your violins. It is a shared joy. Besides, how can we know that we cannot one day become more sophisticated players ourselves? Violins outlive human beings and as a result our bad playing skills as well.

Go for a good violin. "A thing of beauty is a joy forever."

Enjoy!

[IsraelYang]

miles,

You've got some good points here

[Fellow]

Hi Israel Yang,

Since you have bought this violin. It is better say what you have than what you should be having.

To me, most important thing of a violin with respect to the tone is the top (of course its set-up too). Your violin seems have a good top. The varnish is not that great, to many people's taste. If it is not too thick then it probablely is okay. Hope the neck angle is correct. I cannot see from picture. Otherwise,re-set it

to the standard. Most likely it would cost you more than $100.

Remove the varnish of the fingerboard, if it is made of ebony. If it is dyed to look like ebony,then replace it with real one. I would not worry about the " knot" on the back. The pegs may have problems. For the price you get quite a good deal. I believe the tone will please you.

PS. if it is made by a well known maker, then all these problem I mentioned should not exist at the first place.

Re-finishing must be an amateur's job but why?.

[Fellow]

My scinece of telling a good tone of a violin is not more

than my judgement of looking at " four good wheels" to say having a good car. The top seems fine. The grains look nice.

[IsraelYang]

yuen

Thanks for your comments again, I wonder about the re-varnish as well. puzzled puzzled.

You say the top look good, but isn't it usually more desirable when the wood has denser vertical grain?

miles

Here is a good read,

http://www.violins.keithhillharpsichords.com/gpage1.html

[Fellow]

Yes, in general (more desirable when the wood has denser vertical grain)

One of the Roth ($6k) I liked was like that but many Stads (over millions) do not

have densed grains ( I don't understnad it).

[raymanrmd123]

...okay but I hope you realize the E string doesn't appear to be installed correctly.

[IsraelYang]

Thanks yuen

Thanks raymanrmd123 for the note.

[IsraelYang]

Hi everyone, thank you for you help, I just received the violin. I was suprised because it's very light compared to the cheap factory made violin I got on ebay 3 years ago.

The original varnish does seem to have been removed, and I think it's a shame. It came with an octagonal bow that's made in Germany in need of rehair, and an Aubert à Mirecourt bridge which is very low, I don't know the affect it does to the sound produced.

The fingerboard is a very dark rosewood(?) colour and not black(so not ebony?). It seems to have been varnished as well.

The inside just above the label says in pencil 'R?? 1923 by C. Gomph Albany NY', the ?? looks like 'Rep' or 'Rop' but I really can't make out, is it short for Repair?

The violin produces a very bright tone, has a lot of noise until I shook some debris out of the f-hole, even a worm!!!

I guess I am happy with it because it's a lot better than my first violin

Thank you.

(I have attached a picture, let me know if you need to see more.)