Two different teachers, which one should I choose?

[nickia]

Hello everyone! Currently I'm having difficulty picking a suitable teacher for me.

To avoid any confusion, Teacher A would be my current teacher, Teacher B would be the teacher I just have contacted with.

I'm 16 year old and had been playing violin in Public school for roughly 3 years, but I had never gotten serious about it until this Febuary which I began to study with Teacher A.

I have been taking lessons for 6 months from Teacher A, however in my opinion, she isn't focusing on basics such as scales, appregios, etudes, and she's quite easy going.

Books used by Teacher A:

-RCM Technical Requirement Grade 1-4

(includes Scales, Appregios, and selective Etudes from various sources)

-RCM Technical Requirement Grade 5-8

(same above)

-Suzuki 1-4

-Wolhfart Op45 Book 1&2

-Sevcik Violin technique book 1 (purchased by me online)

So I have finished the RCM Technical Requirement Grade 1-4

in 5 months, and begenning to play scales in grade 5 book. I'm also at Suzuki Book 4 Concerto #5 1st Movement by F. Seitz.

Teacher A teaching routine:

-lesson begins, play my homeworks to her, assigns homeworks and play them in class, lesson ends.

My concerns regarding Teacher A:

: She didn't teacher me bow hold, and hand posture etc. Instead, I learnt my bowing from violinmasterclass.com. Maybe my bowing is ok so Teacher A doesn't have to fix it? (Teacher B told me my bowing is better than my left hand during the audition)

#2 Her teaching isn't really balanced. Some times Teacher A may assign few weeks of scales homeworks, after I finished them, she would not touch them again. Then she would assign the second page of homeworks which may be consisit of appregios.

#3 Teacher A doesn't focus on Technical Side. We don't usually do Sevcik and Wolhfart, which might be the reason my left hand is lacking.

#4 She is rather easy going. I can basically pass everything in my homework in 1-2 weeks. Sometimes my Suzuki pieces sound awful but she would still pass them. However, I've noticed some changes of her passing standard as my playing progresses. For example, I have been playing Humoresque for 4 weeks after she introduced vibrato to me.

Is she easy going or she is just increasing her expectation as I progress?

Due to all the concerns I have, I contacted another teacher, Teacher B.

During my audition to Teacher B, he immediately pointed out my left hand lacks and has some unnecessary finger movements, which Teacher A never mentioned anything about it. He also told me my bowing hand is quite ok which goes straight, and steady (doesn't touches other strings).

Teacher B played Humoresque to me after his comments about my playing. I've found out he doesn't play as well as Teacher A: His bow changes are obvious, and the whole playing seems a bit rough compare to the more refined Teacher A.

Regardless of the playing ability, I've noticed that Teacher B is a rather nice person. His teaching appeared to be more structured according to our conversation, he seems to be a *Good* teacher in first impression.

Teacher B mentioned to me that a good teacher might not necessarily a good player, Is that true?

After lengthy background information, my question would be :

Should I switch to Teacher B?

Pros:

-Cheaper $25/hour

-Closer 15 minutes drive

-appear to be a *GOOD* teacher acoording our conversation and first impression

Cons:

-Lesser of playing ability than Teacher A

Tomorrow I might post a clip of my playing of Concerto No.5 by Seitz to judge my playing ability.

P.S. Can anyone please post their teacher's teaching routine so I can use it as a reference?

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

[Fellow]

Hi,

I had 4 teachers like A, one like B. I learnt a lot from either one. Techniical things like bow hold, bow change I learnt on my own constantly keeping eye on them. /yuen/

[Fellow]

(continued) (The computer is very slow in getting in Maestronet , is that me or everybody's experience ? )

(continued) As a leanner of violin playing, only how good you are

as a player that counted, from whom and where or how, is all not that important, in my opinion.

as for bad habits if they are not deeply rooted, can be cleaned up if you know they are bad and decide to rid of them.

Some people suggest to learn from many different teachers. /yuen/

[Jimbow]

" (The computer is very slow in getting in Maestronet , is that me or everybody's experience ? )"Yuen

Hi Yuen,

Yes, Maestronet has been extremely slow for the past few days and I thought it was just me, too.

Glad you brought it up. It is very frustrating.

HELP! Someone, somewhere out there in etherland !

---7/29 Report-------------------------------------

Working great today. Thank you "someone"!

[Stephen Fine]

I like teachers who can play. Now, on the flip side, there are brilliant players who can't teach at all. It's best to get a good mix. I find that prodigies don't make good teachers either. Teachers who have to work hard for their technique--who have to ask themselves the same questions they're asking you. Anyways, I would have to see both of the teachers. Have you asked the first teacher about your hand position? Tell your first teacher your concerns. I wouldn't switch from a better player unless I felt I had exhausted all their resources. Good luck.

[hanxiao]

i think you have to go with your own feelings on them. it seems to me you are already leaning toward teacher B. here is my two cents.

i think for your level, it is very important to emphasize good fundamentals and techniques, which can be unpleasant, boring, tedious and you name it. however, if you are serious about to be better sooner, you have to go that route. a nice person is good to be with, but a violin teacher telling you the facts competently in my opinion is more important than one that is simply nice.

i cannot think of one more thing that is more important than the proper way of holding your bow. look at how a great pool player controls his cuestick for distance control. look at how tiger woods hold his club in his short game.

in my opinion, after the beginner stage, your sound quality depends 99% on the way you control your bow. there are probaby 1000 ways to hold them wrong, and if your teacher find any one of them acceptable and still take your money, you should wonder. It is difficult to learn something new and correct. It is 1000 times more difficult to correct a bad technique. To erase muscle memory after long term conditioning of wrong techniques is challenging, even paralyzing. i know of a famoous teacher who once shared this: he charges beginner students cheaper than students who have played before and were now coming to him. the conventional wisdom may be that those who have learnt before will be easier to teach. but the reality is such that it takes much more effort to correct old mistakes than to teach on a fresh new slate. if your parents have told you 2+ 3 is 6 all those years when you are at home, imagine how confused you will be in kindergarten.

of course, there can be another scenerio which may not apply to you based on your statements, that is, some teachers or students realize full well ahead of time that the students are here to learn "something" and have fun, so they teach accordingly, as long as both sides accept and understand each other.

if i have to choose between a teacher that plays well versus one that teaches well, i will pick the latter any day. Here is why: for your beginning pieces, you can almost always find a recording to listen to, such is the case with suzuki books. a good teacher should be able to provoke you to think, to imagine and to find your own way. You want to learn acting with Steven Spielberg, you do not want to learn acting from Tom Cruise. after all, no matter how well the teacher plays the piece, you have to as well. the good teacher must be able to teach you from different angles, until you fully understand and can demonstrate you fully understand. i have seen, and i am sure you can imagine, many excellent players who simply cannot teach. either they are not interested, or that they simply are unimaginative teachers. it takes talent to be a good teacher.

my advice, listen to recordings as much and as often as you can. once you truly understand the music, the phrase, the expression, it is much easier to have the music come out of you. only then will you find meaning in practicing good techniques without which, you will realize, you go nowhere.

[Danny_w]

Hi Nickia!

I think that all the advice that's been given thus far is good advice, especially from hanxiao. I strongly feel that technique is much more important than the teacher's playing. Not to say that their playing should be aweful, nor should the teacher be a jerk, but the teacher needs to be able to impart and apply the technique in a way that is understandable. It's not enough for a teacher to be great at his/her instrument, they MUST be able to impart to their student. There's no getting around that.

Believe me when I tell you, I think that learning and being picky on technique and scales and can be a pain the butt, but, also believe me when I tell you...it's worth it, and I'm seeing that everytime I play!

I think that it's good to have a balance between "Teacher A" and Teacher B". For me, I need someone to push me and give me practical advice, and hold me accountable, but also has enough patience to help with my lacks as a musician.

I also think that you need a teacher who'll allow you to grow as a musician. What I mean is, someone who's gonna guide and direct you, but allow you to make some choices in your learning. NOT letting you play with poor technique, but explore the technique and helping to find your "inward musicianship". In other words, I would chose a teacher that gonna push you and hold you accountable. Not a babysitter, but will give you the time that you deserve. I assume that since you're taking your playing seriously, so your teacher should be willing to put in the time for you IF YOU'RE willing to put in the time and effort. It's a two-way street.

Wow, I can't believe all of this is coming out a 16 (almost 17) year old, but I guess it comes from my experience from being a musician and being around musicians and teachers and mentors.

Best of luck in your decision!

[Fellow]

Hi

If you pull out a copy of "Beethoven Violin Concerto" and play it from beginning to the end then count how many mistakes you have made. Try it 10 years later and see how many? I am sure you will improve (less number of mistakes, better excecution) but somehow old mistakes or new ones may still show up. My point is that you do your best and try to meet a very high standard,and not worrying about being perfect. If you can win some competitions or pass some auditions, or play some advanced piece of music then it is is quite an accomplishment. /yuen/

[Andrew Victor]

Another point to consider is that the ravages of time do not improve one's violin playing, often quite the contrary.

But even while a player's or teacher's body may make playing more difficult, the person has likely continued to learn how playing is done and how to teach it - and probably improved as a musician all along.

I second the prevailing notion.

Andy

[FINPROF]

You might find that at different stages in your playing career, your needs for the type of teacher will change. For example one teacher might be bettr at getting across fundamentals like bow hold but another might be better at teaching the nuances of interpreting a piece.

[nickia]

Thank you everyone! I appeciate all you valuable inputs and great suggestions. I've made a decision that I will take one month of lesson from Teacher B and see how it goes. I will make a final decision after Augest see which teacher should I study with, I will post the result later on.

To Andy:

Hello Andrew, I don't really understand your post, could you please elaborate?

[Austen]

This may have been mentioned already, but I am too lazy to read through all the posts thus far to check.

Where do you live? If you live in CITY WITH A DECENT SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, YOU MIGHT CONSIDERING GETITNG IN CONTA

[Austen]

This may have been mentioned already, but I am too lazy to read through all the posts thus far to check.

Where do you live? If you live in City with a decent Symphony Orchestra, you might consider coming in contact with the players in the orcheatra who also teach.

[nickia]

HI Austen I live in Toronto, Ontario

[nickia]

Here is my recording of Concerto No.5 1st Movement by F. Seitz in Suzuki Book 4. I have been playing this piece for almost 2 weeks, and there are still tons of mistakes and intonation problems

click here and scroll down to the bottom

Enter the page and then click on Free at the bottom of the page.

[miles]

Well put, Hanxiao.

When I was a Ph. D. student in literature, I sat in on a Physics class taught by a Nobel laureate. An extremely nice guy he was, but there was not much in my head after the class except for his jokes. Then his co-teaching professor came in summarized the material etc., and all of the sudden, I realized how much I should have learned. :-(

I am sure the Nobel laureate is much better established in the area of Physics than his colleague. But it was the non-laureate professor who really hammered the material onto my head.

Just for the curious, why a Ph. D. student in literature would audit a Physics class? Well, one day I woke up feeling like being a physician and so I need to take some science courses to fulfill pre-req for medical school. Physics was one of the pre-reqs.

[miles]

I thought they (Maestronet) were doing system maintenance when the machine is slow.

Well, I didn't go to medical school, but became a computer geek.

:-)

[hanxiao]

doc miles, that is some school you went to...nobel laureate teaching doing time in pre med physics 101.

i remember my pre med physics class fondly. the class started at 8 am and a film was shown each time. i walked in every time late into a dark room and proceeded to find a seat to continue my sleep. i suspect the entire room was asleep, including the professor.

[miles]

Yeah, I remembered that there was one time the professor turned off the light for a long time. Not a sound in the room. Then one student finally asked him to turn on the light again, he said, "Oh, I didn't want to disturbed you guys..." :-)

Nickia,

I heard your concerto. Kudos! Excellent for 6 months learner. If you can play that well, I would tend to think the teacher A (the one you had the first or still have?) did a pretty decent job, if not an excellent job, teaching you. But it doesn't hurt to have a new teacher and find out what the first teacher had missed when he was teaching you.

Keep at it!