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Old Violin ID


pahdah_hound
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This is the most interesting violin I have had. Maybe it is good, maybe it isn't, but it impressed me enough to pay a substantial sum, and I do not spend a fortune on the violins I buy. I paid 6 times as much as the most I have ever spent on a violin. I may have been foolish but maybe not. I will post two photos here and attach the rest.

g1.jpgG2.jpg

Any ideas?

Thank you,

Jesse

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For those interested, the violin is labeled Gabrielli, 1751. No experts will hang their hat on that, but Widhelm has been suggested twice. Thanks for all the interest and the private messages. The violin does sound quite good-only when someone other than myself plays it though. It also sounds good under the ear-just not my ear.

Thanks,

Jesse

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I got it from a person who brings me interesting violins every few months. This one was way out of my normal price range, but he told me that if it didn't work out for me he would take it back. I bought 10 other violins from him at the same time, all of which were in my usual $500-$1000 range. He is probably testing me to see whether I could sell more expensive stuff. I paid between $10,000 and $20,000 and can sell it in that range also. I would prefer not to say the exact price as I could be selling it sometime in the future and I hope to make a small profit if I do. What I found interesting is that some people who are knowlegeable see some Florentine influences and suspect a fake Carcassi label, even though they are sure it isn't Italian. I realize how much more I need to study to be able to distiguish a copied style from an authentic one.

I, of course, was hoping it was Italian, sort of in the same way I am hoping the lottery ticket I just bought might be the big winner.

Regardless, there is concensus that it is a nice 18th century violin, and it does sound good, and that's ok.

Jesse

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Sorry... I'm with you on Germanic work, but I don't see much of a similarity in ff hole, outline, or scroll design there (at least in the example you've illustrated)... Jesse's violin has long flowing corners, pretty typical Stainer style ffs and a "feminine" look to the build. The Greinberger has corners that point outward, ffs cut more open in the center, a more masculine build, and a rather oval scroll with a pegbox that's kind of "fat" at the bottom (in profile). Jesse already has my "based on the photo" opinion. He's welcome to share it if he wishes.

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I doubt this one will be on eBay. There is already interest from a number of players and dealers. If the violin had a Widhalm label, and I could get a certificate, and I was sure there was serious interest before it was listed, I would start it at $49 with no reserve. But, because it has none of the above (yet), I am afraid there would be sufficient skepticism and doubt for it to bring enough for me to take the gamble. I am not afraid to start a $5000 violin at $49 without reserve, but this one would have to bring at least 4 times that amount, and I have no experience in that thin air. I also have the option of returning it if I can't find a buyer, so a big gamble is not likley in the cards.

Jesse

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Hi Skreechee;

I think it should be pointed out that the violin in question (the subject of this thread) isn't really a "fake". It just has a false label (most likely a later addition to "upgrade" the appeal of the violin). The model is based on Stainer, which happens to have been used by a number of German, Italian, French and English makers (Carcassi and Gabrielli among them).

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Jeffrey

The f-holes on Jesse's violin look undercut (the bottom wings lowered) - do you agree? If so, it is a rather interesting feature on a German violin, for me at least. I'd really like to know some more about that - please help.

I've recently worked on a violin with a Gabrielli label, but which was certified as a Carcassi by Beare. It certainly looks a lot different than Jesse's one - head, corners, arching, general outline, varnish etc.

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Quote:


The f-holes on Jesse's violin look undercut (the bottom wings lowered) - do you agree? If so, it is a rather interesting feature on a German violin, for me at least. I'd really like to know some more about that - please help.


You could be right about an alteration in that area. You're speaking of the curve blow the lower wings, correct? I haven't held the fiddle, so it's a bit hard to tell. Jesse's first photos were taken at a slight angle (downward on the fiddle) which slightly distorts the lower portion of the ffs visually... hadn't really taken a close look at the larger photos 'till a few minutes ago...

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