Reeding

[AMORI]

I seem to remember that some makers advise against eliminating spruce "reeding". Is this correct and is it considered "traditional"?

I am part-way varnishing a new violin which shows some "reeding" and wonder if I should add more clear varnish to eliminate the reeding?

[MANFIO]

Some texture on tops is desirable. It was present on old instruments but was destroyed by subsequent overpolishing and French polishing. Only classic instruments in mint condition preserve that texture. Give a look on the search engine with the words

"corduroy texture"

Good luck.

[COB3]

I produce that effect deliberately, partly because I like it, and others do too, and partly because I see that it was normal in the old master instruments when new.

Besides, it makes it easier to achieve what I want in a finish. The reason the winter reeds are so visible in many old instruments is that the pigments used in finishing have been deposited more heavily in the deeper "troughs" in the corduroy, resulting in a striking contrast between summer and winter-growth reeds. This is easy to do, and I think it looks nice, so I do it.

Others have different preferences: some prefer a finish similar to that of a piano--or a coffee table.

[Jacob]

Concepts need "labels". So far I have not been able to attach a suitable label to the smooth, clinical finish common to many modern trade (and makers') instruments.

COB3 to the rescue - henceforth this will be know as a "coffee-table finish".

[COB3]

Well--I can't claim credit; I don't recall where I have heard it used, but it seemed appropriate, and it serves as a point of reference.

For those interested, a scraper tends to CUT the harder winter reeds, and compress the softer summer growth. As the summer growth springs back, it stands slightly above the winter reeds. I like this well enought that I deliberately accentuate it by raising the grain with water, in one form or another. One does not have to do this to achieve the reeding effect. I just happen to like it that way, and it works well with my glazing technique, to achieve the look I want.

[David Tseng]

The early wood soaks up the varnish and swells and becomes the hill, the late wood, valley. They didn't have sand papers in the old days. We are blessed with sand papers from coarse to micromesh. There is no more problem with the uneven surface of spruce. You don't need to make the varnished surface shining like a coffe table, a smooth satin surface is preferred by most people.

[AMORI]

Would it matter if the reeding or corduroy does not evenly cover the entire top? It is more noticeable in some places than others.

[lversola]

My opinion as a player, rather than a luthier, is that this "reeding" effect looks awesome! For some reason, I seem to associate the "coffee table" finish with nasally-sounding trade instruments, though I have often been pleasantly surprised. Does reeding have any affect on the sound?

I especially like when the thinner reeds (winter?) are highlighted with pigment, giving the top a subtle "pinstriped" look and texture. I have seen old Italian instruments with this look -- was this intentionally done, or is it something that could happen naturally to the top over time?

[miles]

Does "corduroy texture" have anything to do with cloth?

[lversola]

Metaphorically speaking, they are talking about the cloth. Specifically, they're refering to the "corduroy"-like texture that you see and feel on the tops (or bellies) of some fiddles, like in this 1733 Bergonzi (picture attached).

Notice the texture and the differences in color between the grains? Most low-end trade instruments don't have this "reeding" texture, and instead sport a very thick, very glossy, very smooth-textured, "coffee-table" finish.

[COB3]

I suppose it is possible that the early instruments came by this look accidentally, but I accomplish it [AFTER my sealer/ground coat] by rubbing a pigment across the grain, using the palm of my hand, so that the pigment hangs up mostly in the (low)hard reeds, and is mostly rubbed off of the (raised) soft reeds.

I use a mixture of alizarin oil paints (W/N) and varnish, with a few drops of linseed oil to stretch the working time. You only want a very thin glaze-- it is easy to get too much and end up with an opaque finish. You can always add another glaze coat later in the process, if you decide it is really too thin.

It would be wise to practice on scrap. I bought half a doxen cheap instruments in the white, off e-bay, and practiced on them. It was a good way to build confidence.

The first one ended up getting stripped and revarnished-- but all eventually turned out well, and are now being played by happy customers.

[lversola]

A friend of mine just brought over his new toy -- some insanely expensive Nikon digital. Neither of us are photographers, but we decided to try it out and started taking photos of my fiddle. Technically speaking, I'm not sure if it's a great picture, but it sure looks cool -- and it really shows off the "reeding" effect that we've been talking about.

[lversola]

Are you guys getting the full pic? I don't seem to, though my computer's been a little screwy lately...

[AMORI]

Only a small portion of the pic loads. Also, you should reduce the size for posting here, it's way too big.

[MANFIO]

The corduroy texture of the top can still be seen in the Messiah violin and other classical instruments in mint condition. If I'm not wrong, there are photos of the Messiah and of a Guarneri viola showing that in Michael Darnton's site.

[fiddlecollector]

[MANFIO]

Thank you for that Fiddlecollector! It seems that some pieces of spruce are more prone to display this caracteristic than others. In this Maggini the effect is very enhanced.

I would like to point also that, as in many other features of Italian violins, the corduroy texture is the result of working technique, the way the wood was worked (with scrappers and litle or any sandpaper) that produced the appeareance.

[fiddlecollector]

Ive found no need for sandpaper ,as one problem with the reeding effect is differential absorption of colour if the wood isn`t adequately sealed. Sandpaper or using water i find will increases the risk of a blotchy finish.

[MANFIO]

The problem is that violin conosseurs love corduroy texture (as well as texture in varnish) but uncultured musicians and "frowners" find it strange, they do prefer a bright, smooth, patent leather finish.

[David Tseng]

From my own experience, the violins having unpolished corduroy surface were more difficult to sell. Perhaps all my customers were "uncultured musicians". they considered the corduroy surface uncultured rustic finish. Just look at the Strads used in the concert halls, all have shining surfaces albeit not original.

[COB3]

Well, I suppose that is part of the problem--we have to make a choice whether to try to emulate the way the old instruments look NOW, or to estimate and emulate how they may have looked NEW.

I would not call anyone "uncultured" for having different tastes than I--very likely it is I who am uncultured. I have noticed that some people are passionately attracted to the reeded look, while others are either lukewarm toward it, or clearly dislike it.

The same seems to hold true for sound-- there is a certain raw, powerful sound that certain soloists really look for in an instrument, while others strongly prefer a pure, sweet sound.

I wonder if some of this is affected by the fashions of the time? Someone on another forum posted some recordings of Eugene Ysaye, and I was impressed by the difference between his recording of a particular piece, and Isaac Stern's recording of the same piece. I wonder what the critics would have said if they had been contemporaries?

There's no real way to know--I guess a person just has to make individual choices, for reasons of either personal taste or the market demands of the niche one is trying to fill.

[johnsr]

The so called "reeding" or "corduroy" effect of the spuce...Is this not due to the fact that the spuce was not dyed and the natural graining is showing??? To become more uniform do not makers dye the surface to make it appear uniform??? Personally, I prefer the natural look!!!

[apartmentluthier]

I like the "coffee table" label. I have always referred to it as the "coffin finish"

[fiddlecollector]

The actual texture is a direct result of the scraping as i think Manfio mentions , The varnish will remain after mmmuch wear in the trench(hard grainlines) . This is what makes old violins look so attractive. At the chin areas and where the hands make contact you usually get a reverse of this and the hard lines remain high and the soft grain is rubbed polished away. It beats a plastic toffee apple look any day.