raymanrmd123 Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 ...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7326075858...he says it's a Cuniot "Tourte" model bow...however, the bow is stamped "Lupot"...I emailed the seller and he said the listing and photos were correct...I downloaded and enlarged the certificate photo...I couldn't make out the name stamped in the wood but I could see clearly a dent behind the name that doesn't exist on the bow being auctioned...starting bid of $20 and no reserve?...sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted June 2, 2005 Report Share Posted June 2, 2005 I was watching a Bazin by the same seller that got 52 bids and went for $1515 Item: 7326434936 There was no certificate on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 That's very disappointing. I have seen auctions by this guy in Virginia, mariam94, for some time--always with a Raffin certificate. In contrast to the NY/NJ bow-stampers gang, I had alwyas thought that he had genuine stuff. But now that I look thru his other sales (tools, electronics, automotive...), the steady stream of high-quality French bows seems strangely out of place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Its just a mark on the photo, The seller is genuine.At least i`ve had contact with him and know where he gets his bows. One thing i don`t like about his methods ,is his shill bidding,particulary the alias called `Koko`,who bids on nearly every auction but rarely wins anything of much value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richf Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Bob, check out the thread "Labels, labels..." I know that the scammer selling those labels is one of mariam's regular customers and from the same region. The connection is very suspicious, but I would be happy to be wrong. (In any case, the bow tip in the Raffin photo is definitely not the same one as in the ebay photo. Can't tell about the frogs.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Maybe ,hes `double certificating`, which is a term i`ve just made up! Basically you buy an authentic bow with a certicate, get another certificate for it from a different source. Then find a bow which looks like it and now as far as ebay goes and poor photos,you have two bows and each with a certificate. His pictures are always over exposed slightly making judgement btween the cert.photos and his own difficult at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanrmd123 Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 ...the attached file...it's an enlargement of the certificate photo...to me that looks like a dent behind the stamp and not something on the photo...also that stamp doesn't look like "Lupot" as shown on the auctioned bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 You may be right, i can`t make much out from the certificate photos. There is a small area which looks like varnish chip on Miriam photos,which could look like a white splodge if hit by flash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanrmd123 Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 ..."mariam--" has dealt with another ebayer "bmp--"...see: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7310305711 ...and: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=3780750784 ...and "bmpl--" appears to have bought or attempted to buy back violins he sold to "mariam--" in the first place -- see: http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...s=25&sort=3 and http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...s=25&sort=3 ...and looking at his feedback "bmp--" seems to have a large supply of Raffin certificates...most interesting is the certificate shown on this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7322539573 ...is it unusual for a certificate to mention NEITHER the weight nor the length of the bow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andante Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Furthermore, reading the certificate regarding the description of the stick it says : "Baguette: ronde, en beau bois de pernambouc..." which translates as : "Stick: round, of good pernambuco wood..." Looking at the photos of the actual bow that they are auctioning, it is clearly evident that the bow is octagonal... A solid, shameless fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanrmd123 Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 ...requested ebay investigate possible "shill bidding" on the part of "mariam--" and "bmp--"...it'll be interesting to see what they come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Which bow, the original post has a round stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andante Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 My previous post was refering the first bow that open this discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Its round, it fairly common for the octagonal section to extend beyond the wrapping.The head section is definitely round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanrmd123 Posted June 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 ...auction photos from the link in my first message...enlarge the second photo and look past the wire wrapping -- it does appear to be an octagonal bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andante Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 Check this link to the web site of M. Raffin and perhaps you will find there some of the bows that are or were in the auctions.... http://www.jfraffin.fr/base/english/welcome_shop.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted June 3, 2005 Report Share Posted June 3, 2005 It only appears that the octagonal section extends past the frog. It does not therefore mean the bow itself is octagonal. I think that's fiddlecollector's point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your_piano_stud Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 regardless of if the items is what the seller says is and despite the authenticity of the certificate, I think it's always very risky to spend a big chunk of dough on intruments over eBay without seeing it in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrlar Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Post deleted by mrlar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 If you go back 4 posts his website is linked . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 So are you the buyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymanrmd123 Posted June 9, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 ...update...I emailed Raffin and inquired about the bow and crtificate...this was the response: "Thank you for your email. It is so easy to buy real bows with real certificate of Mr JF RAFFIN on our website... Concerning EBay : the certificate is good but with a mistake of Mr RAFFIN (not important) - it is a real CUNIOT-HURY bow but model LUPOT and not TOURTE. If you buy this bow, Mr JF RAFFIN can make a new free certificate with no mistake. Sincerely yours, Olivier DEZ" ...not important?!...he misidentifies a bow as a Tourte model when it is clearly stamped "Lupot"?...granted, Cuniot isn't a big bucks bow to begin with but still! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Raffin ,writes out a hell of a lot of certificates, he is much in demand by Owners and auction houses in Europe.He makes the odd mistake and i find that understandable.He provides a service and if the bow is genuine or whatever he will describe it appropriately.I have met him several times and his recognition of the minutii of bows is phenomenal. He always has time for dialogue and is a really nice guy. I bought a bow from Da Salo which had an error in the certificate , which is easily rectified.This was sorted very quickly. Some people just don`t quite understand the volume of bows that pass through his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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