Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Thought it was time for another photo thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy jane Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 We have a Villaume-labelled bow, the head of which looks very much like the bottom bow, so I will be very curious to hear some opinions. Ours is most definitely from V's shop, though the specific maker is not known to us. (Joseph Grubaugh saw it at "Players Meet Makers" & got all excited & claimed it was a Simon. Another dealer said Martin--?). I wish I could post a picture to add into the mix. Someone left the bow on my mother-in-law's piano about forty years ago, where it remained for a couple of decades (no one caring much about such things back then). My husband eventually grabbed it to use as a back-up bow--didn't like it much (very light) compared to his Lamy. But now my oldest daughter loves it. It is in near-mint condition--original wrap and all. How fun. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaissanceman Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'll make a guess..... 1. Tourte 2. Pajeot (or Joseph Henry) 3. E. Sartory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 OK... Bow profiles are difficult if you're not used to looking at them... and then there's the "compared to what" thing. In other words, if you haven't seen a ton of bows, picking the out the profiles is that much harder. I suggest the following: We know they are French, as Guy has provided that information in the title. Try to determine the following: Are they the same maker? If they aren't the same maker, what are the differences? Are there similarities (are the bows related)? If so, what are the similarities? They all look to be in fine shape, but which bow do you think might be the oldest one? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erika Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'll guess (1) Voirin, (2) Lamy, and (3) Vigneron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I really appreciate the post. Top 2 from same shop but different individual or periods. 3rd is completely different maker/shop....still searching Affraid that's the best I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 OK Erika; Rewind a second. Why did you pick the makers you did. Regis: What similar features do you find connect the first two bows and what is the departure in style for the third? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Jeffery, 1st 2 seem to have same shape but one is a bit wider in middle. The 3rd has a different flow down the fron and overall angle in relation to the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Not a particularly objective question, but it's what I think about looking at these three examples: which one, if any, has the feel of a complete idea rather than an experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 @falstaff ...the first one? No question mark. Yes, definitely the first one. Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Dorsey Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 "What similar features do you find connect the first two bows and what is the departure in style for the third?" I first noticed the upturned noses of the first two, most pronounced in the first, that is lacking in the third. But perhaps this is too insignificant a detail. Then I looked at the angle between the ridge (at the front end of the head) and the shaft. The angle is closer to a right angle in the third photo, and greater than a right angle in the first two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 The last one looks a bit more "rough" compared to the upper two. The stick with the joint is perhaps thicker and I feel that the head itself is more massive.. like bold or clumsy :-) (compared to the other two. I wish I had such a beautiful bow) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the stick with the joint." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Anne, Brad and Regis; You are all noticing important details... Guy; nice tip (no pun intended... well maybe a small pun intended). Erika; chime in! I want details! Brad; how do the tips "hang" on the stick (what angle do they have in relation to the shaft... and how is the shaft shaped just behind the head)? Does this have something to do with the "upturned nose" to your eye? If the third bow's head was at the same angle, would it relate slightly more to the first or second bow? If so, which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Another way to say what I think JH is getting at. Two things strike me about the three. Firstly, how the tail end of the S -- that is, the upturned nosed, relates to the top of the S (what is coming out of the shaft), And then secondly, how the entire feel of the S shape relates to the back of the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 @falstaff: I meant the shaft just behind the head. Sorry for the confusion! Aha, looking at the shape of the shaft behind the head, bow 1 and 3 are more similar. They have broad, accentuated edges while bow two is more round or smooth. Good teachers here :-) Regarding the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Tell me, gang, when we are ready for the frogs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I think I did not get the point. I'll better wait for a description of somebody more experienced with that. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Anne; I think you did... although I find some slight character similarities between #2 & 3 that you may not be seeing. Try looking at the chamfer of all 3 bows. What are the differences/similarities? Does one have a bit more movement/flair/character than the other two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your_piano_stud Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 1. Alfred Lamy, given the longer tip or I couldn't tell the difference between 1 and 2 2. FN Voirin, full tip but not so elongated as 1. 3. Andre Vigneron, given the round and full shape of the head, smooth curve to the head; I was going to guess Voirin or Sartory but the tip is too short and chunky for even early Sartory i think... Those are my guesses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 ... do you mean that bow 2 and 3 have a nice consistent "S" but bow one has a deformed S with a sharp end (nose) and flatter "tail" on the other end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 First, be careful the flair of the ivory face at the nose isn't throwing you off. The first two bows have quite a "swoop" in that area. To me, bows 2 & 3 have a slightly different, but related, character in terms of how the back lines of the head work... The first two have are more related in the general shape of the head and the arch of the stick just behind the head. Big hint: I see these three bows as related in terms of general influence, but they are not by the same "maker". It's an interesting progression... So which one is the oldest bow?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy_Gallo Posted May 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 The top of the S of 1 seems more abrupt/squared to me. And the bottom is more elongated. It's almost as if the top of the S is closer in relation to the "hammerhead" style; and the bottom of the S is still clinging to a notion of "swanhead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 I am probably completely wrong, but I am rather sure that bow 3 is the youngest one, but for 1 and 2 it's difficult. I feel that bow 2 is perhaps the oldest one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geigen Posted May 23, 2005 Report Share Posted May 23, 2005 Thank you for the interesting post. I'll check back tomorrow. Good night, Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.