Rich Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 I read on someone's violin making site that he used a regular wood glue to glue the center joints of the top and back of a violin on a regular basis. Those were the only places he did not use hide glue. Is this done often? I assumed one was supposed to use hide glue. Am I correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 I assumed one was supposed to use hide glue. Am I correct? Correct. Hide glue for the center seam is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANFIO Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 White glue would give a bad center joint, in my opinion, since it leaves a rubbery residue that would be clearly seen. Hide glue, when dried, in a good joint, leaves virtually no residue, making a perfect joint. White glue is a very poor glue when it's properties are compared with hide glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 I've learned that there are only 2 types of glue to use on a violin. (1) Hide glue (hot and relatively fresh made). (2) Hide glue (as above) but thinned somewhat for the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Do you always clamp them? I have heard that some just press them together with a slight sliding motion and don't clamp. Which is standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 For joining plates, both methods are common (clamped and unclamped). If you clamp, make sure you don't create a starved joint though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Would that be too little glue left in the joint due to clamping pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted April 19, 2005 Report Share Posted April 19, 2005 Right, although it can also happen from other causes--i.e. end-grain can wick the hide glue out of a joint which is why you commonly size it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 I like a rubbed joint -- there's something almost magical about the wood "grabbing". But it is much harder to do something like precisely align the flames -- it's hard enough to just align the edges of the pieces! --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Do you size the joining of the top and back? or just end grain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Just end grain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongDa Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 I have never tried the rub method.Could someone give a few details of how to do it?? Is the preperation the same as for regular clamping, or are there some tricks to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 The pieces of wood must fit >perfectly<. Hold the joint up to a bright light and slide the pieces against each other; if you see any light whatsoever, plane it again. You can also feel a slight stickiness of bare wood against bare wood, caused by the slight vaccuum of a perfect fit. Working quickly, brush glue onto both surfaces. Don't worry about drips right now. Brace one piece against the bench, and with a fair amount of pressure, slide the other piece back and forth longitudinally until it grabs. It really helps to have a helper to stabilize the lower piece and keep the upper piece from wandering. When working alone, you can put the lower piece in a vise. After the glue grabs, hold the two pieces together for the count of 10. You can actually pick it up by the top piece at this point, but it's best to set it aside for half a day. It's one of those things that is harder to explain than to do. -Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSENGLO Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 Rich, Claire explained perfectly on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andres Sender Posted April 20, 2005 Report Share Posted April 20, 2005 There is good discussion from 2001 on this issue in the archived thread "Jointing violin plate halves" at MIMF, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I put one half in my vise, and rub the other onto it, then when it's done, just walk away for 1/2 hour and do something else. After it's settled and the glue is hardened enough to handle, take it out of the vise and lean it (vertical) against a wall overnight. I shoot the joint with just the very slightest bit of concavity--an amount that's easily closed by hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted April 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Can you explain how the joint is concave? I'm having trouble understanding that and its purpose. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Tighter at the ends, with the tiniest gap in the middle. So that you're absolutely certain the ends get closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongDa Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Thanks for the explanations. I'll try this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oded Kishony Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 There is some information that Amati used casein (cheese) glue for the center joint. Cheese glue was often used in Medieval times to join panels for painting, those panels remain glued to this day! Oded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMORI Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Because I have +30 years experience with white glue I am able to achieve a much better join with it. I do use hide glue nowdays for my violins but my earlier joints were definitely better. Certainly un terms of appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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