Fellow Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Hi AMORI, If the two sides of the crack are separated, then you need to re-joint them together. (i.e. re-glue it) Right? I don't think you should use filler. (It is bad for the sound, in my opinion.) Please let us know how are you progressing. Okay? /yuen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMORI Posted March 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Will keep you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicfingers Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Michael, Jeffery, me thinks the lunar cycle is about to become full... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 I checked this the other day. This is a "new moon" discussion. I also discovered this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Don't you ever sleep, Michael? You know, when I worked on an ambulance, there was a distinct rise in the craziness (though not necessarily the number) of ambulance calls during the full moon. The study you cite has social congregation during the new moon, but heck -- it's showing some sort of effect. Maybe new moon is for getting together and talking, while it ferments into action at the full moon... Amori, I think most of your questions have been touched on, but perhaps not in a systematic way. You said/asked: Quote: Problem areas. 1)There are 3 longish cracks on the front. 2)The varnish is chipped in many places. 3)There is a heavy rosin build-up on the front and sides. 4)It needs a new nut. 5)The varnish looks quite brittle, especially the back. 1) Is anyone able to throw any light on it's origins? 2) In what sequence should a job like this be done? 3) I assume the front will have to come off so that the cracks can be repaired? How is this best done? 4) Must the old varnish be removed due to all the chips and the rosin? 5) If not, how best is the violin cleaned up. I think the consensus answers were something like this: 1. cheap commercial, don't worry about it, good for learning on. 2. clean, remove top & fix cracks, make new nut, retouch varnish, polish. 3. palette knife with a touch of alcohol to help the glue release. 4. no, just clean it. 5. damp cloth; distilled water preferable, perhaps a bit of soap. The rest depends on the varnish. Rosin will come off with alcohol, but chances are, so will the varnish. (I don't think anyone mentioned Xylene; some use it but it's nasty stuff and a carcinogen, so don't use it if you can avoid it.) Most cleaning can be done with just water and a lot of elbow grease. The talk of hydrogen peroxide, meat tenderizer, and oxalic acid was to clean out cracks. Don't thik I've said anything new here, but hope it helps to put it in this format. And oh yes -- 'filling' a crack with wood -- remember original wood is holy, in a restoration -- so a splinter is better than a patch reinforcement. If a patch is absolutely necessary, keep in on the inside so it's as invisible as possible. -Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Quote: Don't you ever sleep, Michael? In the vein of the other thread going on: I'm not in school anymore, but that doesn't mean I've given myself permission to stop learning. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Hi ISOC, Where are you? And your Cremona violin? /yuen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddycreek Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Quote: 5. damp cloth; distilled water preferable, perhaps a bit of soap. The rest depends on the varnish. Rosin will come off with alcohol, but chances are, so will the varnish. (I don't think anyone mentioned Xylene; some use it but it's nasty stuff and a carcinogen, so don't use it if you can avoid it.) Most cleaning can be done with just water and a lot of elbow grease. The talk of hydrogen peroxide, meat tenderizer, and oxalic acid was to clean out cracks. I use a product called Simple Green. I learned about it on another forum. It is an all purpose cleaner, non-toxic, biodegradable. I got it in the automobile section at WalMart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicfingers Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Quote: I checked this the other day. This is a "new moon" discussion. I also discovered this. Oh-oh, this dude is gonna have a come-apart in a couple of weeks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kowalik Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Man, this is a great forum!!! Hi, all. I'm a new member. Just joined today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicfingers Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 Yes it is...If you like all things violin this is the place to be...There is an abundance of knowledge here and some very, very knowledgeable folks here that take the time to try and help those of us who don't have...Occasionally there are the ones that go againest the grain (no pun intended) but if you hang around you will soon figure out who knows what and who doesn't...Regards,Lonnie.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kowalik Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 You're exactly right. I've been hanging around since Nov, at the suggestion of Michael Darnton, and in that short time I've learned who's who and what's what. Most of all, I'm astounded at how much I've learned regarding making, repairing, setup, etc. I've read most of the books in the last 25 years but still had/have a lot of questions. Many have been answered since Nov. I appreciate everyone's willingness to help. I'm amazed at how willing the professionals are to share their hard-gotten knowledge. Two of the three violinmakers I have actually met and visited with were somewhat paranoid about disclosing their precious "secrets". The attitude of the pros here is very refreshing. This forum is great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 "Man, this is a great forum!!! Hi, all. I'm a new member. Just joined today." Welcome Alex, it's good to "see" a new face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Sorry to go off topic Claire, but I thought I'd comment on this comment: Clip: "You know, when I worked on an ambulance, there was a distinct rise in the craziness (though not necessarily the number) of ambulance calls during the full moon. The study you cite has social congregation during the new moon, but heck -- it's showing some sort of effect. Maybe new moon is for getting together and talking, while it ferments into action at the full moon..." My wife was an EMT also. That job requires a certain *type* of person, and I can't identify at all with what drives a person to a job like that. Now, she is a dialysis tech, but she talks of her time on the ambulance as if it was the most exciting and satisfying job on earth... OK, sorry - back on track now, resume the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsr Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 So sorry if my post offended some of the excellent gentlemen in this discussion...I did not intend that... I was referring to past difficulties that I have had in obtaining help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 You didn't offend me--in fact I doubt that your posts offended anyone. If you want to offend someone, I suggest that you'll have to work pretty hard--the competition around here is quite stiff! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMORI Posted March 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 I managed to remove the front this week-end (quite easily). Surprise surprise, it is indeed a real cheapie. No corner blocks and an integrated bass bar*. The belly is 4mm thick at the centre - and remember this is 3/4 size! I am still keen on doing a proper restoration and am considering re-graduating the top, adding corner blocks and a new lower block, and making a proper bass bar. * I would have thought that carving an integrated bass bar would be more difficult and time consuming than making a loose one. Why would they have done this to make the violin less expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 OK, now we are talking. Apart from what you do on the outside, if you re-graduate (DON'T OMIT THE BACK!), fit a bar, corner blocks etc, you'll most likely end up with a really good-sounding instrument. If necessary, clean up and trim the linings if they are too bulky. Also, check the neckset (fingerboard projection, bridge height and string angle), and get the fingerboard thickness, radius and scoop right. Most likely the saddle will be too low (the string angle behind the bridge will be too acute). This in my book qualifies as a "rebuild", of which I've done well over 100 on that type of instrument, and it can definitely yield very pleasing results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 "This in my book qualifies as a "rebuild", of which I've done well over 100 on that type of instrument, and it can definitely yield very pleasing results." I agree, I've done quite a few of this type of project also, and have gotten some great violins out of the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMORI Posted March 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 The angles LOOK okay and so does the fingerboard and nut but, being a 3/4 size I hav'nt a clue where to start finding the right sizes. Oh, maybe my Stroebel size book may help? I am looking forward to this project even more now. Especially if I end up with a good violin - that also looks good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacob Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 The Strobel book will only help you with the bridge radius. But you can flip the bridge radius to use as a fingerboard radius. The FB scoop should be somewhat less than full-size. The overstand about 5.5-6mm. The FB projection about 25mm, the string angle about 156-157 degrees, the saddle about 6mm. The main things too look for are a string angle somewhat sharper than full-size, and a bridge height not less than 29mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Amori If you take your time on the corner blocks (that Jacob mentioned), you can get a pretty good solid fit. That was the hardest part for me on the first one of these. The integrated bass bar planes out very easy. I think that it must be cheaper to leave wood than to have the skilled labor to fit a bar properly. But, I also don't see that it is worth it. Regis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hi All, May I ask what is the corner block for? (except for more sturdy structure, anyone can see that ). Will it make any difference in tone ? /yuen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altgeige Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The corner block will make a difference in the sound, but it's entirely unpredictable what it will be on its own. It might improve it, it might make it worse, or it might just make it different. I haven't seen a pattern to what kind of difference it makes. Along with all the other work planned here, it might as well be done; it's good practice, and that's the whole purpose of the exercise Amori has planned. Altgeige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMORI Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Thanks. What is the best/easiest way of measuring the string angle - on any violin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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