Tuckers Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I just won this Ebay auction. I have bought a number of high ticket items through ebay before, but this is my first violin. I didn't think I would get it at this price, but I do have my trepidations. Anybody know this seller? Fine French Violin by Vuillaume 1830s w/cert NO RESERVE Item number: 3777637188 Looking at the bidders, there are a lot of 0 feedback bidders, not a good sign. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMcDario Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Initial onservations- the neck looks wrong- badly grafted possibly and the body of this fiddle looks revarnished. Overall the violin looks crude (ie. purfling) with the exception of the scroll. Perhaps the scroll was later "matched up" with the violin. The varnish doesn't look right at all and is unlike any other of this maker's work that I have seen. Perhaps it's the seller's photography but it looks way too yellow, light/washed out, and without the subtle shading one would expect to see. Check here to get a photo of this maker's other work- http://tarisio.com/archives/public/s2031.php I'd bet a nickel that this is not what's being represented as genuine. Check out the seller's other listing- you can make out that the label has those little printing dots (sorry- forgot the correct term for that) from being commercially printed/copied- possibly ripped off from a reference book of labels. Also, the letter included with the violin you won means relatively little- it has no measurements of the violin- I wonder what the seller paid for the letter alone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Purfling should converge at the tip to form a wedge. I don't see it in the picture. Why? /yuen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wannabe8 Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Well, I know very little about violins (though I am hoping to change that by lurking here!) but I do find it very interesting that the seller does not want ". . . to take any risks, and must assure that this transaction is dealt with fairly and promptly." but says that "All sales are final. There is no return or refund policy. These pictures directly represent the instrument, and you will get exactly what you see, and nothing more unless stated." ("nothing more"???) I bought a few items on Ebay and I am leery of sellers who are more concerned about collecting payment than making sure that the buyer is happy with the transaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAmati Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 N. F. Vuillaume's sell for more at tarisio. http://www.tarisio.com/auction_results/auc...p;kws=Vuillaume,N.F.&TPS=0 Why is he selling on ebay and not tarisio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Any chance you can get out of this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyAmati Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote: Purfling should converge at the tip to form a wedge. I don't see it in the picture. Why? /yuen/ That is the funkiest double purfling, is it painted on? I can't see structurally how it can hold at the very tip like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote: Any chance you can get out of this??? Ditto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priya Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I don't think this violin has any connection to the Certificate, I doubt that the violin is even labeled Vuilliame, it's just an old funky fiddle with a replacement scroll. It's the seller that has matched the paper with the violin. It's actually shameless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korngold Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 My amateur opinion is that it is definitely fake. The purfling is odd (triple on back, double on front?) and the scroll seems to be larger in width than the neck to which it is attached. The neck heel also looks crude, which I sincerely doubt any Vuillaume was. Also, it does look refinihsed--especially the back. The first set of 3 pictures looks "stretched" or the ribs don't quite look to be deep enough. Also, if you were selling this violin: 1) Wouldn't you take a photo of the label? 2) Wouldn't you take it to get appraised (it it was really worth what you said it was)? 3) Wouldn't you auction it at a *real* auction house, where it might bring in some serious $$? <edited>If it looks too good to be true, it probably is. I'd bail out on that one posthaste. It's better to mar your record with one negative feedback mark than to be out a $2700.00! Maybe you should contact the seller before bailing out, as he may be understanding about it. </edited> Note: I actually tried to edit this after I posted, but it apparently didn't go through, which I discovered this morning. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 From positive side, $2700 is not too much for a good sounding violin. Does it have a good sound ? (Still has hope). Like the Genius of del Gesu, his violins could not match Stradivarious' in beauty but "boy what a sound" It may be this kind of violin, you never know. It looks old, 100 years? It may have power. Have someone setting it up and to play it, see how does it sound. Look alone is not everything in violins, but sound is. /yuen/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 If I had a Villaume violin with a certificate for sale, and chose eBay as my venue, I might consider spending $19.95 additional when I list it, and get a featured listing. I might also consider it a disaster if my genuine Villaume with a certificate sold for only $2700. I saw how much the last one at Skinner brought. For all buyers who hope to get a masterpiece on eBay that has fallen through the cracks, keep in mind that many of the most respected dealers and experts in the world look over the eBay violin listings from time to time. When one of those dealers (often from Europe or the middle east) wins one of my auctions, I know that I have let go a good one on the cheap. Occasionally, a violin I thought was worth $500-$600 will bring several thousand. Then, I know that I blew it, and the violin is surely worth more. The person selling a real $50,000 violin on eBay will not know what he has, will post poor photos, spend more words describing the junk case than the instrument, and mis spell the name of a well known maker and display no clue that it is a fine copie (sic). ie; "genuine 300 year old Stradivarious (sic) made in France in 1726" there's your Villaume. Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Yesterday, someone listed a "Guadagnini" for a starting bid of $200,000. Can't find the listing today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote: I'd bail out on that one posthaste. It's better to mar your record with one negative feedback mark than to be out a $2700.00! If you sent a money order/cashier's check, cancel it! If you sent CC payment through Paypal, STOP PAYMENT! These are just the ravings of a amateur violin nut, but I'd definitely be leary of losing my hard-earned 2700 on that one. While I understand why your saying this, I don't agree. Before taking action that could mar ones reputation (even if it's an electronic one), wouldn't it make sense to find out what your options are through the selling venue, then with the seller? As I see it, neither side is faultless here... and I don't know the sellers motives... or the motives of the buyer, for that matter... but the time to get opinions on an item or product (especially one with no return option) is before you bid on it, not after... and the time to confirm authenticity, or originality of the parts, of an item one plans to offer is before listing it, not after it's sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pahdah_hound Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 here you go! Gagliano is the name. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...415389&rd=1 Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 I bought a bow from this seller. It was what was claimed but, they would not ship until PayPal put the funds in their bank account and they verified (which took well over a week if I remember correctly). I have 100% positive feedback on well over 100 transactions and have never encounter something like that by a seller. Regis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Exactly, Pahdah Hound, You and I understand that, ebay is a market place. It takes two sides to complete a transaction. Both sides have to fulfill their promises once agreed. I know one case, someone bought an expensive violin like $440k and he thought it worths only $200k. A difference of $240k but it did not bother him at all. He bought it for keep. He said "every violin of this price level is unique" Different violin for different folk. Get the best out of it by playing. $500 or $ 500,000 sometime,the owner seldom mention their prices ( "I forget how much I paid for it," is a general reply I heard). /yuen/ PS. It was insured the full amount. Not an ebay lucky find per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usqebach Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Now that this thread has come around to a question I had, it will save me posting my own thread. When a seller (particularly those with 0 or very few feedbacks) posts a violin with a starting bid of $200,000, or $500,000, what are they really trying to do? Obviously, it is not to sell that instrument on ebay at that price. Are they simply trying to get an e-mail response and sell the instrument (for some fraction of that price) off-ebay? Attract a local buyer to come look at it? As sensitive as people are to scams, I can't imagine a scam being that blatant, but who knows? I think this is a GREAT forum, and it gives some of us Ebay amateurs a chance to learn a bit more about the ins and outs of that "flea market" perhaps without having to learn EACH lesson the hard way! Usqebach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 In the "Gagliano" auction, I think the seller does a lot of Ebay business, finds it a successful way to sell antiques, and doesn't know the violin business well enough to know this isn't going to work (both because it's Ebay, and because he's not a violin dealer--that is, I don't think *he* can sell it anywhere). Often, though, I feel certain that people are advertising and fishing for off-Ebay sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 There are some that simply set a starting price and have an un-realistic high reserve just to get a "value opinion". They may be establishing a price to convince local buyer or curious if they got taken in what they bought, elsewhere. I know of one person that did the "value" thing a couple years ago but, I don't think she does that anymore. I have noticed that there are fewer and fewer violins to buy that you can expect to restore and make back what you put into them. A couple years ago, you could buy $50 - $200 and expect to cover your labor and parts. That has now moved up to $150-$400 to get something good enough to even put the work into. This is all based on buying from pictures of course. I don't sell much but, like Jesse, I will not have an unhappy customer....'almost' whatever it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew weinstein Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Maybe as people understand the way auctions work, they'll stop saying "I won this auction".( With victories like this,...) I realise that there are honest operators out there, but if you don't know what you're doing, don't buy from someone who says all sales final. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korngold Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote: While I understand why your saying this, I don't agree. I admit, It was a bit harsh. I amended my wording originally, but it didn't take. I hit "submit", walked away, and came back this morning to comments about my comments that should have been gone. Anyway, I gave 'er the old red pen this morning just in case someone only reads this thread half-way. I still think the seller had the intent to deceive, but then this whole transaction falls into that unusual situation: Should I pay a seller whose intent was to deceive? or Was it my responsibility to realize they were being deceptive? I suppose the bidder should find out if there was intent to deceive. Maybe the seller only thought it would go for 300 or 400 dollars (which it may well be worth), and he would completely understand if you e-mail him and tell him you don't want to pay $2700 for it. But, maybe make an offer of good faith if you're going to reneg on your bid. I suppose what I would do before backing out completely is to offer the seller the listing costs plus closing costs, and hope he accepts. He still has a number of other bidders on this item to whom he could make a "second chance offer" so he may very well accept this "peace offering." The sellers who post on the Maestronet boards exhibit impeccable honesty, but you must remember that many e-bay sellers do not. I actually think Jesse and the other sellers who post here are rare gems among e-bay sellers. So, as a buyer I approach every auction with a great deal of skepticism. Also, a good rule of thumb was posted on a different forum--only bid what you can afford to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elidatrading Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 A Vuillame with PAINTED PURFLING??????? Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuckers Posted January 27, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 You can clearly see that the purfling is inlaid in the close up pic. Where are you getting that the purfling is painted? There is no close up of the back however. I am most concerned with the varnish on the scroll and the varnish at the joint of the head and the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Holmes Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Quote: I bought a bow from this seller. It was what was claimed but, they would not ship until PayPal put the funds in their bank account and they verified (which took well over a week if I remember correctly). I have 100% positive feedback on well over 100 transactions and have never encounter something like that by a seller. Regis FYI I found the after sale "spin" interesting as well, although this may have little or nothing to do with the seller. http://p078.ezboard.com/fcellofuninstrumen...icID=3601.topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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