Workbench design

[HongDa]

I have a chance to build a bench this summer in a school workshop at no cost; wood included!

The last bench I made was a European style with a shoulder vice and tail vice.A very nice bench which I sold before travelling a few years. Now I'd like to make one more bench since I'm settled down for good so hope to get some ideas here to make it just right.

Any advice on proper bench and chair height for someone who mainly sits for hours?

Michael and Jeffrey, I'm looking carefully at your shop photos and would like to know your bench and chair heights if possible.

I really like that chair you have Michael! Did you custom make the cabinets on either side of the bench or happen to find they were just suitable for supporting your bench top?

What would anyone here advise on making the ideal bench??

[Michael Darnton]

I made all my cabinets. What I did was spend a couple of hours sitting in the empty room of my first shop and think carefully about how I was going to use the space, and then designed a set of cabinets to maximize things, while making them as versatile as I could, and of sizes that would make the most of four by eight sheets of 3/4" Oak plywood.

I have two big cabinets you don't see that were side by side and gave a lot of counterspace, but now, in the third iteration of my shop, they're stacked near the door. The two little cabinets under the bench were designed to fit my tools, and I haven't changed a thing about their layout since I made them in 1991.

The chair is the most comfortable I've ever worked in, and several of my friends have them now, too. It's mcmaster.com's #9057T17, and worth every cent it cost. It's fully adjustable, so you don't have to worry about buying the right height--just work it out as you work. Don't be tempted by the version with wheels--you'll find that you push yourself around when you don't want to.

I didn't think the traditional wood vises would do what I wanted, and they eat benchtop, so I bought the iron vise you see. I bought the one that opened the most (mcmaster #5275A4) because I like to open it all the way and sit back with my feet up on the guide rails, but it's turned out that I use all that mouth space for real work, too, in conjunction with the round brass bench dogs that plug into holes down the length of the bench.

If I remember, I'll try to get a shot of the whole shop next week, so you can see everyting, but it's pretty tight--the room's something like 6x15 feet. I finally figured out, after a series of spaces like this, that I like to nest rather than spread out. I do have lots of other space and rooms for stuff, though. The tool room is larger than my workspace, for instance, and so is my storage room, and there are two big main reception/playing rooms that the three of us share (we're friendly competitors, not partners.)

I don't remember how tall my bench is--I'll try to check next week.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Hi HongDa;

My planing bench (large Ulmia) is about 35"... The fir benches that line the walls are 34". I use an adjustable drafting chair (with wheels) that I find very comfortable an allows me to "scoot" between stations (gluing, to the 'cello cart, to the computer, etc). The second stool does not have wheels (it's just a bar stool with a back), but I find I use it less.

The fir benches are made like a butcher block (in strips). The body is about 1 1/2 inches thick and the legs, breadboard ends, backstop and face are about 3 1/2 inches. It's anchored to the wall so I can really push on it as needed. I cover the work surface with carpet pad. Most of my day is spent in repair/restoration (and that's what my considerations were when putting things together), but the work surfaces works well for making as well.

Here's a shot of the work surface.

work surface

[Michael Darnton]

Maybe we can agree on a chair with two wheels, placed diagonally? :-)

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Sure would tend to improve balance with use!

Honestly, I don't know if I'd be as pleased with a rolling chair if I the main part of my day was spent making....

[Seth_Leigh]

I love the look of those knife handles Jeffrey. Are those Japanese knife blades that have been polished down to the handles?

[Michael Darnton]

"I don't know if I'd be as pleased with a rolling chair if I the main part of my day was spent making...."

My one brief experience with a rolling chair involved carving a scroll against the edge of the bench and constantly having to drag myself back towards the bench. That lasted about three minutes.

[Dean_Lapinel]

.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Hi Seth and Dean;

Yes, those are Japanese blades in handles I made to fit them. The slot goes all the way through the handle. I slide the blades out when I need to grind them.

Dean, it's an Amati.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Quote:

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My one brief experience with a rolling chair involved carving a scroll against the edge of the bench and constantly having to drag myself back towards the bench. That lasted about three minutes.

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Yup. That would about do it for me as well.

[Michael Darnton]

"Dean, it's an Amati."

Division of labor--I sold it, Jeff maintains it. :-)

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Quote:

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"Dean, it's an Amati."

Division of labor--I sold it, Jeff maintains it. :-)

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I'm not sure who got the better end, but I'm certainly not complaining!

[Michael Darnton]

One of those definite win-win things.

[Dean_Lapinel]

.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

[Seth_Leigh]

Jeffrey, what do you use that skinniest of blades for?

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Seth, that's my bridge knife. It's 6 mm wide and sharpened with a long bevel (pointed). I actually have one even smaller (than the one in the photo) that I use occasionally.

[kPart]

As a general question for Michael and Jeffrey, when did you begin repairing violins and how did you begin? Do you have any suggestions for a newcomer such as me? What book(s) do you highly recommend?

Sam

[Michael Darnton]

I started mesing with violins when I was a kid, and then when I got serious about it, I went to guitar-building school, because that was a good way to learn a lot about instruments in eight weeks. Then I had my own shop for a couple of years, and did some small and every-increasing amount of violin work. My wife saw an article about Bein and Fushi in Chicago training the people they needed for their shop, and she talked me into going there for a trial week. They felt I knew sufficiently little to be trainable without retraining, and I had the skills, so they hired me, and trained me.

My first recommendation of books is the Dover edition of the Hill book on Stradivari: I have four copies, spotted all over the place and have given a few away, which is one reason why I have so many. It's the best book ever written about the violin, and cheap. The next book I bought was Sacconi's " 'Secrets' of Stradivari"--more expensive, and much more technical. Neither is a repair book, but both are landmark books you need to have. The first book I bought was Edward Heron-Allen's "Violin Making as it was and is"--it's entertaining and gives a great overview, but much of the information is faulty.

There aren't any good repair books, in my opinion; only the Weisshaar one which is expensive, and has some things in it that no responsible shop would do (the problem is that as a beginner you won't know which things these are).

However the Hill and Sacconi books should keep you busy and thinking for a while. The reason to get them is so that you get a good understanding of exactly what a violin is before you start messing with them.

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Hi KPart;

My interest in making and repair began pretty early on (I think I was about 10), but I didn't do much about it until my early 20s. I recall sitting around the violin maker's shop (Reuter's in Chicago) as a young student staring at all the cool tools on the wall and watching as my violin was worked on.

I decided to pursue the trade when I read an article on the Warren School in Chicago. The school is now known as the Chicago School of Violin Making.

I attended and graduated the school, working during the last year (it's a 3 1/2 year program) with Marilyn Wallin in a shop in Willmette, IL. After that, I went to Ann Arbor to work with David Burgess and Mark Norfleet at Shar. I ended up staying with the company until two years ago (long after Mark & David had left); running their old instrument division. Great experience and exposure. Got to work with several talented luthiers over the years.

If you're interested in the trade, there are several small programs and two or three schools available to you in the states. I do suggest some sort of "running start" (formal training), as the key to learning the finer points will be finding a good shop or maker to work with... and few will take on an assitant they need to start from scratch.

Michael covered the book part pretty well.

[Michael Darnton]

It's interesting that Jeffrey and I both got interested early, but then took a while to get there. I bought the Heron-Allen book when I was 12, and a couple of years ago my mother revealed that when I got it, she'd sneaked a peek and decided "that's a waste of money--he'll never do that!" And for 22 years she was being proven right. :-)

[Alan_Coggins]

"the key to learning the finer points will be finding a good shop or maker to work with... and few will take on an assitant they need to start from scratch."

I managed to find a way to get around this .... I found a good maker and married her. But that may be a bit too drastic a step for some. :-)

[Jeffrey Holmes]

Quote:

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I found a good maker and married her. But that may be a bit too drastic a step for some. :-)

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...but a very creative way to solve that problem!

[kPart]

Well I dont know if Im ready to devote all my time to violin repair but I've been invited to sit in and sort of apprentice with the man who rehairs my bows and runs an instrument repair shop in my hometown of Swarthmore - so I might do that sometime during the summer. As of right now I think I'll strictly keep this line of work as a hobby. I do have a number of cheap ebay violins lying around and I was wondering if anyone has any experience converting classical violins to electric or perhaps converting traditional 4 strings to violin/violas adding on the low C string. My friend back home has two of Mark woods electric violins, a five string and a six.

[H_Axel]

Michael:

You recommend the Dover edition of the Hill's book on Stradivari; I found an online version over at CelloHeaven (Antonio Stradivari: His Life and Work (Hill brothers)). Is this the same book? The price is certainly right...

Hal