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New Ebay Username - Expanded Lines of Bull


nicolo
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"nicolo"-

IF you actually bought a violin from me then what's the item number of it? How much did you make on it? IF you were so unhappy why didn't you bring your dissatisfaction to my attention so I could have remedied the situation?

Why would you state the following about Chinese violins, "You're right about the considerable talent showing up in Chinese violin making. They're doing such nice work, it's getting a little scary. I want to see them do well, of course - just not too well. Not well enough to put everyone else out of business."

And then state, "I make profits on them all the time.". It's not nice to bite the hand that feeds you.

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I don't have the item number anymore. I was not dissatisfied for the money. The violin was just what I expected it would be. I think I paid you about $135 and sold it fast and easy for $275 to a new student. There was actually nothing wrong with our transaction. I would have even left you some positive feedback if you had given me any. The complaint I have is with your descriptions. Why make statements you know are false? You could base your pitch on the positive features that really exist in your fiddles.

If I had resold the same violin on Ebay, I wouldn't have designated it as a student instrument, but I wouldn't have said it was hand made or professional quality, either. I could honestly say these things about this particular violin with no exaggeration at all:

It is very well constructed of beautiful, carefully selected woods, having a solid spruce top of fine, even grain and perfectly matched back, ribs, and neck of highly flamed maple. It has inlaid purfling and is fully lined and blocked. This violin resonates freely and has a very satisfying sound; full, rich, and strong. It's tone is somewhat dark, but not at all muddy. The violin is articulate, responsive and consistent throughout its range on all strings. This violin has no label. It is a high-quality Chinese instrument that was set up and adjusted in the United States to professional luthier standards for optimum sound and playability (this has to have been done, of course). This is an outstanding instrument in its price range and is in new, mint condition.

I have bought and sold a lot of Chinese violins. Some of them have been extremely nice for the money, and I'm not complaining about that. But personally, I hope to see continued economic progress and long-term stringed instrument competition in eastern Europe. I think that's where the real future potential is for affordable, artist-quality instruments.

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Your response has been what I expected- you can't even come up with proof that we've ever done business! All you can say is "The violin was just what I expected it would be.". And yet you continue to make negative comments. And as far as your description of violins- use it to sell your own violins. I am quite happy with the honest descriptions that I already have for my violins. Find someone else to slander. And by the way- just what is your eBay user name- that is if you even have one...

The only "Expanded Lines of Bull" I have read are your posts here on MN.

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Nicolo, your description sounds familiar.... I agree that describing the virtues of a product without crossing into superlative laden bravura, is more credible and pleasing to many buyers. However, many different marketing styles can be used to acheive the intended result.

Each style has its benefits, and often reflects the attitudes and personalities of its authors. I hope that the descriptions I write are consistant with the personality of my business.

Jesse

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I was looking in your ebay store and found, "Sapphire", Serial #632". I was wondering if you could tell me who Mr.Paul Jue is, and what violin making awards has he won, and from who, as your description states. I did an internet search but came up blank. I'm trying to form a database of the many new makers working in China.

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Nicolo, it seems your complaint is more of style than substance.

As a neutral observer to your public discussion with Mr McDario, I certainly formed the impression you were an aggrieved and disgruntled customer and now it turns out you got a helluva deal from which you made a profit!

In passing, it seems are you somewhat enthusiastic about Chinese violin making.

I have closely followed discussions on China violin making over the last year and the main thrusts have been that

1. the quality of violin making in China is improving by leaps and bounds and

2. the public perception of Chinese violins is very low.

A consequence of the second point is that sellers are often reluctant to reveal the source of the instrument explicitly and that is perfectly understandable while prejudice remains.

This is not nearly as bad as claiming an alternative and more prestigious origin for these instruments. There is a lot of that going on and that is where you should direct your energy rather than against a single vendor (whom I have never met) who has clearly invested a great deal of enthusiasm and energy in bringing the best of the East to the West.

I'm sure you didn't intend to lead a campaign of vilification but that is rather how it has come across and my advice would be to drop it and join the small, but growing ranks of us who have spotted an interesting trend in Chinese lutherie and seek to learn more about it.

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A consequence of the second point is that sellers are often reluctant to reveal the source of the instrument explicitly and that is perfectly understandable while prejudice remains.


As someone who's reasonably impartial and uninvolved, let me add my pittance: I appreciate Jesse's style of description, because I would feel quite upset if I bought something based on someone like MisterMcDario having chosen not to reveal certain information because too many people would find it important! That's exactly the kind of information a seller has an ethical (and legal) obligation to reveal. Why should any seller have a right to substitute his self-interested judgement for mine, and trick me into buying something I would choose not to buy if I had all the material facts?

Nicolo's basic thesis seems appropriate to me: sellers should describe their goods in a complete and straightforward way.

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Mr. McDario, I would also be interested in seeing a response to jaf67's inquiry.

Who is Paul Jue?

What award did he win?

If these instruments were made by an award-winning master violin maker, why is his name not in them?

Do your Paul Jue violins come with certificates? If so, how can their validity be verified?

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It's relevant because you, and now 'regent' have seen fit to launch a personalized attack on someone for not disclosing as much information as you think should be disclosed and yet no criticism has been made about the quality of the product or value for money.

Whilst making these high minded criticisms, you both hide behind the cloak of anonymity and give us no reason to take your comments seriously.

Neither of you has contributed anything positive to the thread nor, I suspect, have you contributed to international trade or Sino-American relations.

Wallow in your self-righteous indignation and nit picking criticism.

Most of us can rise above this level of public vilification and would prefer to see contributions from people who have something constructive to share.

During the course of these threads, mister mcdario has shared some most interesting information about musical instrument manufacture in China. Neither of you has left us any better informed about anything we didn't know already before you began your rantings.

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And by the way, I did change my ebay seller name from "anewminicooper" to Beautiful Stringed Instruments" because my Mini Cooper is 2 years old now and no longer new. I do have another new car but I didn't think "anewLandRover" would fit hence "Beautiful Stringed Instruments". Satisfied?


Dear me, what happened to your Mercedes? Have an accident?

For those of you who have no clue what I'm talking about, please check out this previous thread. At that time, our Mr. McD was talking about anewminicooper in the third person, and touting the seller's business. Some choice excerpts:

Jacob: It doesn't look as if Saga supplies this viola, another e-bay offering by anewminicooper. Does anyone have an idea where he sources these[?]

MrMcDario: If you are so anxious to know where they come from, then why don't you ask this seller? Better yet, instead of being to critical, why don't you actually buy something from this seller? I just bought the Vuillaume that I mentioned in my previous post. I love it! It is indeed authentic and my experierence with this seller has been perfect. He is very reputable and fair. I highly recommend him. I asked him where he gets his violins, like the Ebay ones, and he told me that he wholesales them and personally imports them from around the world.

Jackc: Does anyone else here get the distinct impression that Mr. McDario drives a new mini cooper?

MrMcDario: Last time I checked, my Mercedes was still in my garage.

Mr. McD - would you care to explain this, um, little inconsistency?

- Mike Stein

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It's relevant because you, and now 'regent' have seen fit to launch a personalized attack on someone for not disclosing as much information as you think should be disclosed and yet no criticism has been made about the quality of the product or value for money.


Glenn, I really think you should re-consider your position here. I simply stated my personal preference for Jesse's style, and said that I would not appreciate someone self-interestedly failing to give out material information that might affect whether I bought the goods he's selling. What possible problem could you have with someone politely stating their personal views?

And, just for curiosity, how many people, do you suppose, would not want to know the origin of an instrument?

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Quote:

It's relevant because you, and now 'regent' have seen fit to launch a personalized attack on someone for not disclosing as much information as you think should be disclosed and yet no criticism has been made about the quality of the product or value for money.

Whilst making these high minded criticisms, you both hide behind the cloak of anonymity and give us no reason to take your comments seriously.


I see a big difference between a seller who has the responsiblity of disclosing accurate information about his wares, and also about himself and his qualifications to a potential buyer, as contrasted to a person posting a personal experience or opinion on a bulletin board. Seller has a fiduciary responsibility, poster is only stating his/her opinion and can be either taken seriously or not as the reader desires. Sellers cannot misrepresent either their own products, themselves or competitors products and competitors' skills and ethics. See the book Violin Fraud by Harvey and Shapreau on the seller's obligation to disclose.

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general...p;ci=0198166559

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Hi lastchair,

The previously deleted post was factual and true. I am not an idle bystander, and was very seriously interested in buying the violin listed in the aforementioned sellers auction. I know and ( THAT MAN ) knows what transpired during our email exchanges. He was deliberately vauge, evasive, and gave what I now deem and (many others as well) a description which was outlandish, exaggerated, and simply deceitful.

THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THANG AS "probably Chinese", do you get the picture??

I am a Christian, as you are, but sometimes you have to stand up and say enough is enough. Many spout off with 20 syllable words, winding and twisting them in such a manner that it sounds like a lawyer describing a tract of land involved about to be sold in New York City.

I don't mince words, and most likely way too blunt. A lie is a lie, and that is the truth. It would take a fool and idiot to say otherwise. Many don't like the truth, or the light and try to cloak it in many different ways. That is not good.

When someone takes a FIRM stand, many take offense, then let out a pitful cry as if they were guilty too. Those that squeak out with lousy excuses, reasons why it can't be so, and other such nonsense, are the very ones who are guilty of the same thing. Watch your back.

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I didn't start this thread with the thought that anyone should be an idle bystander or that their posts should be ignored. I think anyone with personal integrity would have a negative feeling toward dishonesty and see nothing wrong with expressing an opinion on it.

It is appropriate to express an opinion in a public forum. Yours is an informed opinion. It could help give a potential Ebay fiddle buyer the advantage before bidding of knowing something about the seller he may be dealing with.

You and the Bean may have put some people off, but needless to say, it didn't bother me a bit.

- Which is not to say that I don't respect Glenn's position. I can't speak for him, but I think he's a nice guy who is trying to see the positive side of Mr. McDario's business efforts.

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I'll just pull up a chair and get a large bowl of popcorn.

What a coincidence that this thread was started by someone who believes he was mislead by an ebay seller, and the ebay seller has responded in kind. Several other maestronet users have either tried to mediate or align themselves with the buyer or the seller. Discussion has gone from discussion about honest representation to ad hominem attack.

As someone who is used to parsing my words, one of the basic things I learned about contracts (aside from the offer and the acceptance) is to distinguish a "representation" from "mere puffery." To say this violin is a beauty, wonderful, excellent are words of puffery. Everyone either knows or ought to know that beauty, wonderful and excellence are in the eye of the beholder. However, when a seller gets a bit more specific, for example: "This beautiful Stradivari model, new full-sized violin is handmade by award winning violinmaker, Paul Jue" --well, then the seller has represented that a person named Paul Jue made the violin (and that it is full-sized). For either representation to be false would be considered a breach of the contract. Now, I suppose that one may be incredulous that master Jue made the $165 violin described in ebay (one may even question whether there is a Master Jue altogether).

The foregoing notwithstanding, as a newbie here I have rarely witnessed a market in which there is so much misrepresentation. It's really disconcerting. The majority of this board is taken up by someone pointing out ebay misrepresentations or outright frauds. The most amusing thread I read was when Greg Alf weighed in that ebay's cellodoc was selling a fake violin knowing from Alf that it was fake.

Whether Mr. Dario has crossed that line of legitimacy is for others to decide. However, I would speculate that Mr. Dario's descriptions are so hyperbolic that they undermine the legitimacy of his higher priced violins. I doubt he sells many, even on ebay.

On the other hand, I would also venture to say that someone like Pahdah-Hound gets a premium price on his violins (compared to other ebay sellers) because his descriptions are measured. I also think he may have happier customers. I think their relative feedbacks reflect this.

Just my $.02

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Wow, I usually just search and read topics for kicks but this topic inspired me to add 2 cents of my own. Look, anewminicooper/MrMcDario/futurenameofyourchoosing I'm sure business is doing fine for you since many people don't have the foresite to research before making a purchase..so why do you have to come on here to try to trick and flame people? Esp knowing that 90% of people here (not counting me lol) KNOW the instrument inside and out. Just confused a bit.

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