Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

Joseph Henry violin bow


afiddler
 Share

Recommended Posts

Depends on who gave you that "retail" estimate too...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Powell:

Had an authentic E.Ouchard french bow 5years

ago, retail price said it to be worth a lot more than I could actually sell it for,

so I consider retail like new car prices,

no one in their right mind pays it, just

whoopla,blue sky,coupled with inflation.

Mike Powell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geez!...sure got me diggin in my attic, have

an E.Ouchard bow,silver mounted w/Ivory frog

I forgot about,

Al Stancel wanted it before he passed away...

Might have a nice vacation and a good cuban ceegar for those prices,if I find someone to pay that much!

Hope we all had fun, and maybe the fella will

give you guys a call on his Henry bow,never

know where these finer things show up....

Well....you guys got me thinkin about vacations and fine ceegars,Im going to look

in my attic for that bow...

Regards to all,

Mike Powell

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’d like to point out that there were four persons (if I may include myself) who responded to this post who are active in the appraisal field, actively deal in rare instruments, or both. Not one of us responded with a price and we all suggested the poster seek a professional opinion. These same four persons have often willingly responded with price ranges for commercial or more common instruments and bows or general price ranges for different “schools” or categories of making...........and even with a sale result or two, if the information is prevalent. I believe we have all been relatively consistent in this.

The main reasons (and I believe the other professionals will have similar reasoning) that I do not respond to price inquiries for specific pieces or that I advise seeing an appraiser when the question “what's the price range for a .....” (which happens to be a fine or rare piece) is that these items should be valued according to the merit, condition and example of the piece itself.... not to mention authenticity (which is difficult to determine on a discussion board). The difference in value of a poor vs. a great bow by the same maker is very large.... The range grows wider if the item “isn’t right”. smile.gif I also don’t know the poster or why they wish the information they are requesting. I try to have personal relationships with my clients, which allows me to interject information they will find helpful or useful and that I'm relatively sure won’t be used in a way I might find distasteful.

The price guides Andy quoted are redily available and handy for determining “ballpark” values or for examining the trends of the market, valuation lists like the latest Fairfield book (to which I believe Chris contributed) or Maestronet (to which I contributed the retail format and participated in submission of prices with a number of other dealers) have very narrow criteria (very good to excellent condition; very good to excellent example, etc.) and tend to go “out of date” rather quickly. Still, a savvy owner may find these publications or lists quite useful, especially if a qualified professional has helped the owner determine how his specific instrument or bow fits into the “big picture”.

The authenticity of parts and condition published in auction history lists is either nonexistent or unreliable. Prices realized are generally (but not always) lower in auction than on the dealers floor, for a number of good reasons including different service, selection, trial and support policies.

Best wishes to all,

Jeffrey

[This message has been edited by Jeffrey Holmes (edited 06-28-2000).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeffrey,

Thanks for that dose of reality. For a long time, I seemed to be the sole owner of the 1973 Fairfield edition (Known Violin Makers), and was happy to post the old 1942 (retail) prices, and the slim facts about luthiers given in that book, when there were inquiries at the "Old Board."

I came to realize that several other contributors to the board owned that book and other, better ones, as well. The new Fairfield book has brought price ranges more up to date, with 1999 retail instrument-price listings, separate 1999 bow-maker listings, and modern "Italian" listings. When I post the prices given there, I also try to give the auction prices from a different source, so that those who have inquired will have some idea of what they have in their case.

It can be, as you say, an impossibly long way from the listed retail prices, to money in your pocket. Pretty much like the diamond trade - one may have to buy retail, but you will virtually always have to sell wholesale. So if you make an "investment" purchase of a fine instrument there may be a long time your heirs must wait for the wholesale value (which they are likely to get) to double to equal the retail price you paid. (And the reverse.)

Andy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to you all for your replys to my original question!

I'd like to point out the fact that I of course showed the Henry to experts in the field - actually known dealers. Since I got quite differing results on how much I should be willing to pay for the bow I wanted to check with as many people as possible... Much better would have been to pose the question differently: would you say, Henry bows go for about the same price as let's say Simons and Pajeots, or is this a shelf lower and we could compare Henry with Francois Peccatte?

In any case my little investigation got great results and now I know more.

Andreas

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Andy,

For the most part, a good high tech stock would have put the appreciation of an old Italian masterwork to shame last year.... and some instruments or bows do not significantly appreciate.... or don’t appreciate at all.... but:

When dealing with rare instruments or bows, (purchased from a reputable source at retail or appropriate market value) the reasoning you mentioned in your last paragraph is true only under certain conditions (if one needs to “cash out” quickly for example...). First, one has to determine what one’s strategy concerning the “investment” is.

If one is “investing” in a career of music, and needs appropriate equipment, purchasing a tool which has a capacity to appreciate is an attractive option. I bet that more than a few who make their living with computers wish they might have this opportunity. smile.gif The tax advantages, appreciation, and use (earned income, winning the audition) can add up pretty well in the long run.

If the goal is to move up into more expensive equipment, trade options negate most of the “wholesale” end of selling the item. Most dealers have policies which ensure trade values in this situation.

If the player decides to sell and downsize, waiting for a consignment sale reduces the time necessary to recoup the initial investment due to the nature (%) of the sales commission.

Most collectors I know “invest” in fine instruments and bows for the same reason art collectors buy art. They love the item and have the funds. Sure, there is a thrill in “winning” when a fiddle or bow does appreciate sharply, but most don’t sell at that time. Those who lend or donate instruments may have some tax savings, but they were shrewd enough to make or maintain their estates through other investments... most gifts are mainly for philanthropic reasons, in my experience.

Interesting thread......

Best to all,

Jeffrey

[This message has been edited by Jeffrey Holmes (edited 06-30-2000).]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 21 years later...

Yes, the bows at Maestro Swan's site is one of the best examples of heads I have seen when referencing an Henry.

There is a website, Tarisio.com, that has interesting photographs of bows and instruments. The internet is amazing.  

The Henry bows I have seen or played have been more on the yellower- shade of the photos presented. Less than a dozen. Not sure how the UV and life on the road has an effect on that particular Pernambuco. They are, as many imply here, can be fantastic bows. But also very expensive. I still search for Malines and Simons simply because they appear to be more "affordable." I love a Jean Adam copy that ties directly into my favorite Simons....

To measure my comments with a grain of salt, the way I play does not agree with many of the famed makers of the current era. Will play every Sartory, Espy, Thomachot, I get my sweaty little hands on. But for my own playing, are less helpful than some other makers. I assume that some makers were more sensitive to particular areas that matter to my own knowledge of the instrument. Regards to your interest, I am also fascinated in the criteria where these bows are parsed out.

So what aspect of the bow interests you?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Firstly it's almost unheard of for a silver and ebony French bow to have a Parisian eye and a 3-part adjuster. A Parisian eye would have a plain silver adjuster and a plain eye a 3-part adjuster.

The heel plate on an Henry violin bow should be 2-part.

The wide ebony centre on your adjuster is not typical, so on balance I would dismiss the mounts.

the head doesn't look credible (too broad across the forehead and too clubby, the nose too fat and the chamfers too lazy) and the brand looks pretty splodgy.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, martin swan said:

Firstly it's almost unheard of for a silver and ebony French bow to have a Parisian eye and a 3-part adjuster. A Parisian eye would have a plain silver adjuster and a plain eye a 3-part adjuster.

The heel plate on an Henry violin bow should be 2-part.

The wide ebony centre on your adjuster is not typical, so on balance I would dismiss the mounts.

the head doesn't look credible (too broad across the forehead and too clubby, the nose too fat and the chamfers too lazy) and the brand looks pretty splodgy.

 

 

Thanks Martin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, martin swan said:

Firstly it's almost unheard of for a silver and ebony French bow to have a Parisian eye and a 3-part adjuster. A Parisian eye would have a plain silver adjuster and a plain eye a 3-part adjuster.

It does happen occasionally though, and is often very confusing  when it does.:)

The bow just posted  looks like abeille wood  or maybe just the photos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...