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Beethovens genius is seen greatest in.............


staylor
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In my opinion, Beethovens is just GREAT and incomparable to anyone else ever, in general, where?

In his endings. I've never heard this being said by anyone other than myself, but aren't some of his endings just out of this world?

Violin sonatas, Cello Sonatas, Concertos, (violin, and some of the piano ones). It's not that they are dramatic and noisy, but simply genius and heavenly. They bring out what the whole piece was leading to.

Opinions?

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His endings are sometimes overwhelming. They can produce incredibly strong mental and physiological responses in the listener. His beginnings often grab the listener by the heart also - and we have not even mentioned what goes on in between the beginnings and endings.

You have recognized something that Beethoven stated as his intent. His music can be technically demanding, but it contains nothing for the purpose of musical showmanship. Every phrase and every note is dedicated toward the articulation of a musical statement or emotional expression. There was only one exception. He wrote a piece for solo piano (a toccata? Cannot remember) for the expressed purpose of watching virtuoso pianists make fools of themselves by showing off with it.

It would be virtually impossible to definitively state who was the greatest composer who ever lived, being that there are so many musical forms to consider. In the sonata-allegro form, he wins.

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A fifth grade music teacher said that one of her pupils had this to say about Beethoven on a quiz:

Beethoven wrote music even though he was deaf. He was so deaf that he wrote loud music and became the father of rock and roll. He took long walks in the forest even when everyone was calling for him. Beethoven expired in 1827 and later died for this.

Another student had this to say about Bach and Handel:

Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions and had a large number of children. In between he practiced on an old spinster which he kept in his attic. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Bach was the most famous composer in the world and so was Handel. Handel was half German, half Italian, and half English. He was very large.

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HI Thom,

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And the most interesting thing about the violin concerto, as my teacher pointed out to me, is that the first movement is essentially stuff from a scale book strung together as only Beethoven's genius could /Thom/

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Every time someone played his violin conecrto my mouth stuck open for 10 min. but I never get mouth stuck with any scales,whoever played it.

Strange, isn't it?

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I can recall in my late 20s attending an LA Phil performance of Brahms 1st symphony and being dissapointed that it was not BEETHOVEN. Not to demean Beethoven, whose music still moves me more than anyone else's (although there is some unbelievable Mendelssohn) there are marvels created by many composers, and I'm so glad I can now treasure most good stuff that passes through my ears.

Andy

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Mozart who?

I agree with frungy... I just find Beethoven's violin concerto a bit boring... it goes on and on and on... the second movement too. Though the third is nice.

I like the first theme in the piece.... but the violin part is just boring... I'm sorry if that offends anybody.

Don't get me wrong... Beethoven's music is my favorite... that just doesn't mean I am blindly crazy about all of it.

But for the sake of the topic... I like is romantic works more.

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Quote:

I dunno, I find Beethoven's Violin Concerto very underwhelming.


The first time I heard it I felt the same way. It's really grown on me, though -- every time I hear it, I enjoy it even more. It's not an instant crowd-pleaser like Tchaikovsky, but it has such depth. I'm very taken with Mutter's recent recording with the NY Phil.

My favorite work by Beethoven is Fidelio, no contest. I wish it were performed more often.

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Quote:

Mozart who?

I agree with frungy... I just find Beethoven's violin concerto a bit boring... it goes on and on and on... the second movement too. Though the third is nice.

I like the first theme in the piece.... but the violin part is just boring... I'm sorry if that offends anybody.

Don't get me wrong... Beethoven's music is my favorite... that just doesn't mean I am blindly crazy about all of it.

But for the sake of the topic... I like is romantic works more.


I feel that Beethovens violin concerto is very challenging to play musically, in a way that is not utterly boring. Also challenging to appreciate, but it's there. A very great work. I often imagine that if I played it the way I want, many people would feel overwhelmed by it. (and this is the one major concerto which I have worked very hard on and completed, also by heart. Though not very polished technically).

I also wish to take this oppurtunity to repeat what made me start this thread, which was regarding the especial Genius I believe Beethoven has for endings of many works.

I once heard that in Beethovens music it's always aiming for something higher (one fellow students opinion, when I was in school). If so, however, I would go a stage further and say that it all comes to a head in many endings.

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Brahms 1st is my least favorite symphony of his... the first 3 movements seem to be completely devoid of any theme, as if it was just 30 minutes of development. The 4th movement is great (I mean, who doesn't like it) but the first 3 bring it down. Supposedly everyone expected it to be "Beethoven's 10th Symphony" but the expectations were too high for Brahms. Once he got that out of the way, he was able to write with less pressure, I feel.

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>I find Beethoven's Violin Concerto very underwhelming.

My first reaction as well. In time it will grow on you. I would recommend the Heifetz recording with Charles Munch conducting. It is fast paced without sounding rushed. Some violinist take tempos in this concerto which are as lethargic as can be.

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Quote:

I think people who love Beethoven's music would love Mozart's too perhaps exclude those who have not been exposed to it


Not sure if I understood what you were saying... but it sounds like you're saying I haven't been exposed to mozart's work...

I just don't care for it much. I enjoy some of his choral work, but other than that I find it uninteresting. I'm not insulting... I'm just saying I don't care for it.

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Quote:

I saw the subject thinking this was a fill-in-the-blank statement, and was going to say "... his late string quartets." Absolutely sublime, and to think that he was only able to hear them in his mind.


Me too. The more of Beethoven I hear and play the more I love his genius. I sometimes think it was a good thing he suffered from deafness as we got what he heard in his head without being subject to outside influences.

The late string quartets are indeed sublime.

Jane

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Hi,

What I meant was that if someone has heard or played Mozart's violin concertos and his other music, but he/she was not impressed by them but felt Beethovens better. It is just fine(it is an opinion thing, he/she is entitled to say so) I believe diametrical opinions can co-exist without being ridiculous, but surprised. However, if we try to compare two composers,(we said Beethoven greatest,comparing Beethoven with all others) we should listen to both, in all fairnesss.

That was my point /yuen/

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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

>I find Beethoven's Violin Concerto very underwhelming.

My first reaction as well. In time it will grow on you. I would recommend the Heifetz recording with Charles Munch conducting. It is fast paced without sounding rushed. Some violinist take tempos in this concerto which are as lethargic as can be.

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I did not say that (first quote)

I love to play Beethoven violin concerto and Mozart violin concertos too, there was no complaint from me. My complaint was " if you forget Mozart while say Beetheven is the greatest,as if he did not exist"

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