Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 16

[dede]

I have a Violin that has a label "Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 16__ (no date readable after the 16. Mine also has another label above it "repairt von WILHELM FREDEL, DRESDEN anno 1873" Would a copy or fake have this repair label? Any info is helpful. dede - dede: 9/5/2004 5:05:34 PM

[stillnew]

Quote:

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I have a Violin that has a label "Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 16__ (no date readable after the 16. Mine also has another label above it "repairt von WILHELM FREDEL, DRESDEN anno 1873" Would a copy or fake have this repair label? Any info is helpful. dede - dede: 9/5/2004 5:05:34 PM

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"Repairt" is not a German word: It would at least have to be "repariert" unless this is an old German version of the word from the 17th century. But then I don't know why anyone would go through the trouble of inserting a fake repair label. I did find the photo of an Amati as well as a description of its characteristics here: http://www.thomasbowes.com/Pages/amati.htm I hope the experts on this site will be able to confirm whether that information is accurate.

My first violin bore the label "fecit in Cremona", the name of a famous violin maker, and stated that it was made by him about 15 years after his death. The luthier who examined it referred to its workmanship in terms of "carved with a kitchen knife". Combining workmanship, unplayability, and deteriorating sound, it was easy to dismiss the claim. If yours has a wonderful sound, then it has true value in that alone. I hope it turns out to be the real thing.

[dede]

Wow, thanks for the info! I hope it is the real thing also. It was found in a trunk at a police auction from a drug raid, so who knows!

[AJ]

I also hope what you have is an original as it would be nice to see one of the many people who come here with this question get lucky! But, from what I have learned from this board, it likely isn't, although the repair label is probably not faked ( as you say, who would bother) so you may still have a nice old violin. The label that reads Nicolaus etc., but you can't read the last two digits is common in copies all over the world. I have one with a similar label stuffed in the back of my closet. The labels are mass printed without the last two digits so the place that makes the violin can hand-write the last two digits depending on the model they are copying. Still, what you have might be a nice hand made copy of an Amati that's over 100 years old. Do you have photographs? Some of the experts from the pegboard here might be able to give you some more information from good photos.

[Anothersun]

Hi,

I have the violin from my great grandfater.

In the violin is the mark:

Nicolaus Amatus in Cremona 16,

and the label with the name of :

Hermann Trapp, Wildstein b. Eger

(bohemia)Faciebat Anno 18

I would like to know the value of the violin, and If someone know more about it?

Thank You in advance

[TSENGLO]

Quote:

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Hi,

I have the violin from my great grandfater.

In the violin is the mark:

Nicolaus Amatus in Cremona 16,

and the label with the name of :

Hermann Trapp, Wildstein b. Eger

(bohemia)Faciebat Anno 18

I would like to know the value of the violin, and If someone know more about it?

Thank You in advance

---

I will suggest you post your message in the Pegbox, there are more people could help you out.

[AJ]

The experts over on the pegboard will also tell you that the label alone doesn't mean much, they need photos.

[Clarence Gallant]

Hi,

 

I have a Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 1647.

 

I would like to know if someone knows anything about this violin or the violin maker.

 

Any information will help.

 

Thanks

[DR. S]

If on the the really really off chance that it is real,and considering where it came from, there is high probability that it was stolen.  If it starts to look genuine, need to get some photos out in the violin dealer community to see if it can be identified as a stolen instrument.  There may be a sizeable reward for it's return.  You'd like to think the police checked it out, but don't count on it. 

[Omobono]

...... considering where it came from, there is high probability that it was stolen.  If it starts to look genuine .....  There may be a sizeable reward for it's return.  

In general I like this attitude with regard to surprising finds.

If it's too good to be true it most likely is ..... the best outcome is as you suggest.

[Will L]

 Would a copy or fake have this repair label? Any info is helpful. dede - dede: 9/5/2004 5:05:34 PM

In fact, a copy is MORE likely to have a repair label.  Good repairmen don't usually junk up the inside of a real Amati, Strad, etc. with their repair label.  It is considered unprofessional.  Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions.  The odds of your violin being authentic are slim, but good luck.

[Bill Merkel]

^That's what I was thinking.  What better final touch than a repair label from 1799,,,

 

Latest chapter in the Red Violin.  Stolen Red is part of an asset forfeiture in a drug raid where she is auctioned off by the police.  The buyer takes it to a violin shop to get it painted blue, but the proprietor recognizes it and declares it worthless and most likely cursed and purchases it from the buyer to ease his losses.  Interpol puts out an APB but the trail has gone cold.  Everybody dies and 100 years later Red is found sealed up inside a wall in Cincinnati in a building across the street from Music Hall.

[Will L]

In fact, a copy is MORE likely to have a repair label.  Good repairmen don't usually junk up the inside of a real Amati, Strad, etc. with their repair label.  It is considered unprofessional.  Of course that doesn't mean that there aren't exceptions.  The odds of your violin being authentic are slim, but good luck.

I have to argue against myself a little, since there are a few Stradivari repair labels around.  And anyone would be delighted to find a real one in his violin.  

 

But Nebel taught that the only place a repairman's name should be found is on a bridge.  Any self-glorification was on his NEVER list. He was sort of like the Sierra Club type who believes in taking his trash and leaving only his footprints.  

[smiki]

Hello

I need some informacion on a violin labelled Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 1680 

signed corelli with a black ink and engraved this letter CMM 164 with a kitchen knife

conclusion

according to my research I guess it's the signature of the great italian violinist composer Arcangelo Corelli

but I am not sure

thank you in advance for your information

[palousian]

An actual Amati signed by Corelli would really be something, though this isn't anything like one, in my opinion (which is pretty much worthless).  This looks to me like a violin made in the vast cottage industry in the Vogtland region of Southern Germany in the early 20th c.  The neck has become unmoored from the top block, so that would have to be dealt with, but it looks like good materials were used in making it.  Sometimes these can sound surprisingly good, so maybe this could be interesting to set up and see what you've got...

[smiki]

Merci pour votre avis

Disons que c'est une copie alors que moi dites-vous de la signature de "Corelli" et de l'abrevaiation: CMM 164 (concert musical)?

Pour plus d'informations, je rejoins un modèle de signature Corelli.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by smiki
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[Romeo]

I have a Nicolaus Amatus fecit in Cremona 1617. Haven't seen any with date that old. He would have been 21 years old.

[palousian]

It is almost certain that you don't actually have a N. Amati, and the label you see is not authentic.  If you are curious what you actually have, you could post images and the experts (that is, not me) could sort it out for you.  Here is a helpful thread that tells you the sorts of photos that the experts need to see... https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/333119-how-to-photograph-an-instrument-for-identifcation-purposes/

While it is true that an early-17th-c. Amati would be worth a devastating amount of money, there are also very nice Amati copies from the 18th-c. and later that are very nice violins in their own right and worth some $$$.  The most likely case, though, is that your violin was made c. 1900 in the Southern German cottage industry and is worth a few hundred.  It may still sound wonderful though.