I've given up bending linings......

[xania]

I broke 3 today.

I'm going to make the luthier coffee and get him to do it.

I'm over it!

[fiddlefaddle]

it may take more than coffee, xan

[Michael Darnton]

Soak 'em first, then use lots of heat, and a bending strap, slowly?

[CamQTR]

Hi Xania,

One day, when I was bending ribs for my son's first violin, I broke so many that my son became upset. I promised him that I would be careful, and that I would give him a dollar for each rib or lining that I broke. I wound up giving him eight dollars that day! Since then, I've improved greatly, but still far from perfect.

[llama]

Wait till you get to the purfling

I discovered it worked for me if I fed it through... I feed the piece slowly and evenly across the iron and start to curl the trailing end towards me, that way the section I'm bending has had a measured amount of time on the iron. I found I didn't have to soak them, but a spray bottle helped enormously. The upper corners needed a few passes, but it encouraged me not to just pull and snap the thing.

[MANFIO]

No, the most difficult thing is getting a good sound, that's really difficult.

[tim2]

Try again with the addition of a block of wood held behind the strap to assist in keeping the rib securely against the iron.

Without the wood, you can use the thumb to keep the rib forced against the strap so everything remainst tight.

You can also fold a paper towel (something strong like "bounty") the width of the strap, dampen it and use that between the strap and wood to keep things damp. The damp towel will pretty much stay stuck to the strap as long as it's kept moist.

I prefer to use only a damp cloth covered block to work the rib against the iron into the curve.

Keep the rib damp and iron hot in order to move along quickly while preventing burn.

Don't give up so easily.

Tim

[Craig Tucker]

Nonsense Xan!

You can do this - It's one of the more simple operations involved in violin making. I know it would be a piece of cake for you if you could watch someone who has bent a few first, but if you're doing it on your own there may be some simple element that you're missing in the process.

I've posted this routine here before for what it's worth.

Here's what I do:

First, I cut and finish a whole bunch of rough lining wood strips at one time. Enough for perhaps ten or fifteen violins. That way, my attention is NEVER on having to get the job done with only a specific amount of lining wood, plus, I can just toss what I break and continue without a break in stride or concentration...

Lining wood is really cheap. What, about $5.00 for a hundred strips?

OK, so I do the same thing with bass bar material... What can I say, I'm a type A.

I like the linings cut on the quarter so that they are stripped with quarter grain on the face of the lining - I use aged Sitka spruce from an extra billet of belly wood (or cut from specific chunks of lining wood that I get from Orcas Island Tonewood - along with block wood @ $30.00 a box - enough for YEARS - why act as if there is a shortage?) - with a tight enough grain so that about five or six grains lines show along the length of the finished lining face... It is sort of a trade mark along with some other consturction particulars that I like to incorporate. It also makes for really strong/thin linings.

When initially cutting them, I thin them so that they are very flexable and thin. One key to not breaking them (for me) is to flex them as I thin them, and remove any extra thick spots along the strip that don't flex easily, It isn't a painstaking, or long drawn out process, and you just get a feel for it eventually if you sit and do it for an hour or so.

Plus, with the blocks and ribs in place the linings don't have to be really thick to accomplish their task anyway.

Then I soak them in a length of PVC pipe filled with HOT water for thirty or fourty seconds, then bend them on the (also HOT) iron with a small block of hardwood used for leverage, re-wetting them as necassary so that they will just flex into place witnout breaking. Put the bend in slowly and use the heat.

Pay particular attention to how and where you cut the face that butts up against the block. A clean fit is really essential. I like to use the makers knife or a 1/2" chisel sharpened really sharp. Toss any that don't mate perfectly or that come up short.

I bend and clamp one entire side (six linings) then go away and let them dry into place for a few hours in the sun, then come back and glue them all into place at one time, then place the ribs outside to dry for another three or four hours. All the linings should be slightly proud of the rib so that a perfect level mating surface can then be had when they are trimmed flush.

YOU CAN DO THIS - or, have the guy show you one or two first. I'm saying that this isn't something that shoud be very difficult.

It usually takes about an hour (combined time) to bend, glue, and (clothes pin) clamp them all into place once you learn the technique of bending. Perhaps a beginner should expect to take three or four hours after preparing the strips ahead of time, to bend the first six linings - if it takes any longer, something has probably been misunderstood.

I have very few breaks, and then it only takes a few minutes to toss the broken length and move on to rebend another.

The best way to learn is to sit there and keep bending until you complete a set. Even if you break 100 strips, so what? Once you acquire the 'nack they go easily.

[HongDa]

I assume you bent the ribs? If so , then the linings should be a piece of cake.

Maybe they are too thick? Are you using a bending strap?

[fiddlefaddle]

are we talking about ribs or linings...xania?

[tim2]

That's funny... I (like maybe some others) was thinking this was an issue with ribs. For some reason it just never registered in my mind that there would be a problem with the linings which are much less complicated.

Tim

[Okawbow]

Good willow linings are so easy to bend, you almost don't need a bending iron. They can be bent dry and hold their shape well. Spruce is brittle and needs to be wet to prevent breakage. You can make your own willow linings from a sapling cut and split into quarters. The linings are sawn off the quarters, thereby getting quartersawn strips.

[xania]

No, the problem is with the linings, which are spruce. The ribs are perfect-but then again I think that I may have made the luthier a coffee at bending time.

[MANFIO]

Yes, I think Roger Hargrave talks about the possibility of Del Gesù using split rib material and glueing them wet without bending, forcing them against the blocks.

I make my ribs this way: I bandsaw a block with a planned side, I take blanks of 2 milimeters, them I cut the planks with a japanese marking gouve (they mark and cut). I use the planned side to be glued to the ribs, leaving the machined (saw marked) side to be thinned. It's very ease to make them this way.

[jmasters]

I posted on another occasion. There is some good advice in the other postings too. Spruce IS brittle, especially if it is not thoroughly wet. Also, if you buy precut linings, the grain may not be parallel to the strips. Then, they tear along the gain.

Spruce is waterproofed pretty well and has closed pores. I suppose this is because evergreens evolved to be functional throughout the winters.

Because of this, I soak linings several days. You can keep them in water for perhaps several weeks before mold starts to grow. I would advise you to find a long tray and soak them for a week. After this, they are as easy to bend as willow. The heat will drive off most of the water. You can clamp them in place for a day or two to allow the remaining drying (and perhaps shrinkage, which is quite small in any case.) Don't trim until fitting. You can clamp to the outside of the ribs. If you are worried about wetting the ribs, just put in a layer of Saran wrap.

One writer points out that they may be too thick. The stiffness goes up rapidly with thickness. I think by the cube. This may be part of the problem.

[jimbo]

have you ever considered using the same maple wood for linings that you used for ribs. That's what I do and maple wood for linings bends just as easy as maple wood for ribs. Plus the wood is the same as the ribs so far as strength,looks, etc.