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waste of time and words ??


jmasters

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Thanks..... I don't really know any of you. I have no reason to attack a person, but I am quite used to attacking ideas. On a written forum with no real chance of feedback through person contact, this is impossible. Also, the time lag makes this impossible. Thanks again for the reminder of the "wise words." I recall being around in schools when he was active.

I will give my apologies for my bad decorum and continue to contribute my own comments on techique at times, when it is part of the actual thread.

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And thanks to you. You are a good sport. But likely you will infer more history from my other replies. This is a forum with mostly interested hobbiests who have other day work. I had tried to turn it into some kind of high-intensity debate environment. That was not appreciated, and I certainly can understand why.

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A very clear description of how I must have been thinking. Yes, I tried to take this on as a debate society. It is not that, I see. I don't need to debate, ironically, because if I DID find significant results from any experiment, I likely would not post them on the web.

Do you recall when I brought up the damping of a plucked string in a violin vs. a guitar? This has a significance for me and I continue to look into it. Part of my escalation of aggression was that I simply could not undertand why this would not seem important to the others.

I don't have a "fine education" and I am ashamed to have bragged about it. I simply used that as a defense when I thought someone was blowing off a good idea. My education is sufficient to carry me on if I run into particular questions that interests me. If I can't handle the math or other aspects, I at least have friends (believe it or not !!) who can help me. Best wishes, jm

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"" Now to you John. What is your personal gain from trying to defame me or others. It doesn't help anyone and just seems to frustrate you. Just consider how emotionally invested you became from my comment to you (which was advice sent with good intentions). You wrote a negative note, you researched my posts.....what a waste of time.

I don't know who you are but I still have concerns for you. You are clearly intelligent and well versed in many areas. You have much to contribute but why such frustration and hostility? I think it hurts you more than others. I wish you good health, calmness and I do hope you stay and just consider the well intentioned advice of others. "

I decided not to go back and find a "defense" for what I said. Don't be concerned for me. And please don't "pity" me. One poster down the line says this.... My reply will be the only negative one of the set. I am not expecially calm these days and for a variety of reasons. I try to keep the work going, Thanks for your reply. john

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It is perfectly lucid. I am afraid I don't recall you from eight years ago. Perhaps if you have site with a picture, it would refresh my memeory. No hurry on the reply to the e-mail of course.

No, you are not my MOM, but she certainly had words for me at times !! This is not new for me. But I will avoid the debate mentality in the future if I can possible do so. Anybody should feel free to remind me if they wish.

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"" John,

I witnessed your aggressive behavior on another forum. I simply don't like you. I pity you as well. You are an unhappy man. Get some help, for your own sake. And of course it's all about YOU, isn't it. Do you have any kind thoughts about anyone, anywhere? ""

I don't care if you don't like me. Others have shown that they were angry, offended, and many other things. You are different in the contempt you show. That is fine too. I am unhappy about a few things, and I am "getting help" for things that may or may not be related.

Your letter is the most smug, and you are the only one of the lot that I would advise...... Ask yourself if you are not yourself driven by a strong sense of self-righteousness or superiority .

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Thanks..... I don't really know any of you. I have no reason to attack a person but I am quite used to attacking ideas. On a written forum with no real chance of feedback through person contact, this is impossible. Also, the time lag makes this impossible. Thanks again for the reminder of the "wise words." I recall being around in schools when he was active.

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This whole post has been a waste of time!!! I mean come on, I have seen you hammer people, and people hammer you!! Grow up!!! For people, not just you, to have a pissing contest on the web is stupid! I think, I'll quit coming here,I want to know about violins and bows! Not who thinks their the best maker, or has the highest education, etc... VIOLIN!

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"This whole post has been a waste of time!!!"

667 people have viewed this thread so far, obviously interested in reponses to the original post, I believe it has cleared the air to a certain extent.

IMO there are no posts that are a waste of time as every one has differing interests and I'll hazard a guess that probably 90% of the makers here either believe they are, or will become the best violin maker of them all.

As a matter of fact I am the best artist in my area of expertise. (do I hear bullsh*t artist voiced in the background)

If you leave the only one you'll hurt is yourself as this Forum is an excellent source of information, second to none.

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"... I am after all Australian, and it wouldn't be the first time an attempt at dry wit has caused unintentional offence.... always with the Americans."

llama, after my last post I thought as a fellow Australian, I'd better confirm your statement in case the Americans here think I'm being genuinely boastful, instead of engaging in some flippancy.

The English can usually pick up dry wit but often it goes right over the heads of Americans, who take it seriously and become offended.

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Hehe... as Barry Humphries said over the Selma Hayek incident. "The poor dears, they sometimes need to have things explained".

I can see that for the most part we're all attempting to use the international version wherever possible.

The following program is rated [AU], and contains scenes which may offend the rest of the world. It includes sarcasm (SC), wit (WT), similes (SL) and scenes depicting service station transactions (AEYAGAAU).

©La, (F)la, (G)laaah.

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While I am American, I completely agree with you.

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The English can usually pick up dry wit but often it goes right over the heads of Americans, who take it seriously and become offended.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I enjoy UK films because of the humor and style. These films commonly will not film every emotion and event. They (the films) often leave much to the imagination.

There are countless Americans who don't have the blind arrogance that leads to the conflicts you discussed. there are likely an equal number of Australians who feel the same way about other countries.

But.....how many of these more open minded kinds make violins? (had to throw that in because of the forum mate).

Jmasters, sorry if it seemed that I pity you. I respect you and even more so after your recent posts.

Now I'll just go look in Madonna's closet to see if I have left any clothes there accidentally....after all, it's a common occurence.

Dean

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lafolia, mistake, imho.

everyone gets the same tolerance.

furthermore, to monitor another's behavior is way beyond our scope or ability.

feedback, yes, but on the same playing field as everyone else.

no special treatment

I respect persons with a emotional, or personality disorder, we are all suspect.

I do not hold a person accountable for being ill. but I do hold them responsible for their behavior, there is simply no other way

but it is up to each of us to seek help, which is, after all free available, and to take responsibility for our behavior.

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Alex, I must be a different category of American then. Not only do I enjoy British comedies, but of late one of my favorite weekly passtimes is to listen to Prime Minister's Questions over the web. I also bought season 1 of The Office. I'm waiting for season 2 to come out on dvd, as I can't get BBC America on cable.

Number 1 Mr. Speaker!

In case anyone's wondering, this morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House I'll have further such meetings later today.

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I have tried to grow up. spent close to 60 years at it. But why are you on this forum to learn about violins? Many here get pleasure ridiculing "non-violins" and VSO's and those poor violins don't even have a chance to speak for themselves. There is precious little useful discussion beyond laughing at "bad" instruments or commenting on e-bay sales.

I gave you all the chance to speak your objections to me. It was not a "pissing contest." But please don't point fingers too hard. This is the first time I mention it, but there is plenty of arrogance to go around. Those old factory violins often have a good deal, even good wood at times. Their worst physical aspect is treatment of interior fittings. Second is their lack of worth simply because of the money dynamics of the violin market. I think that if violins were sold solely on sound, materials, workmanship, appearance, and functionality, there would BE NO violin marketat least as it there is today.

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Funny, it never did seem a forum on violins pure and simple. That is why I gave opinions that landed me in trouble with so many of you. Largely it was a forum to try to evaluate the worth of violins, or to ridicule violins which others felt worthless. (But better than most of the members could make in any case. Right, those Factory Violins had technicians that could knock out a scroll in very little time.)

There has been some discussion about actual making, Michael has donated a photo-sequence on making a viola. In fact I had many questions about this which I did not ask because I figured they were proprietary. If he says not, then I will ask them.

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Why not? I never even met an Australian, at least been in contact enough with one to learn idiosyncracies of his language. American English derives from an earlier time than Australian English. Also, we have had many admixtures of German, Irish, Italian, and other smaller mixes. Of course, there is a lot of input from the Black-evolved version of the culture.

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" Jmasters, sorry if it seemed that I pity you. I respect you and even more so after your recent posts.

Now I'll just go look in Madonna's closet to see if I have left any clothes there accidentally....after all, it's a common occurence. ""

Thanks for the gentlemanly good humor. And I suspect a bit of boasting in your second paragraph.

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"" John, you are very knowledgeable, with a keen mind. I hope you stay around. I think it helps that you have been so open about your condition. The least we can do is help you out a bit, especially since the only cost to us is occasionally having to bite our tongues. Does this seem like a plan? Is there any other way we can help? ""

No need to help, I simply will appreciate interesting remarks. Avoiding patronization will help. I was open because I CHOSE to be. I said before that I thought three times before commenting on whatever I am being treated for. (I have never been given an official diagnosis.) I realize there is a stigma there I see this as a failing in the general understanding. But not one in myself.

"" John gave us one other insight into his mind. He said his aggression increased markedly when he discovered we did not share the passion for enquiry about plucked strings. The interesting thing is that it was probably unpredictable, beyond our control, and probably a bit irrational. But who among us is totally rational? ""

It was something I wanted to give away for free. (being stupid and wanting to be accepted) I continue to look into this. It is not a trivial point. It was beyond your control, of course. Do you need to be in control? It was also irrational, why should I try to give away things that are not wanted? Nevertheless it seems very significant to me. I even gave numerous hints, begging you to understand the point.

"" I know one other person with bipolar disorder who is quite normal and productive most of the time, but who occasionally gets out of control in a similar way. Apparently, this kind of behavior is typical for the condition.""

What you mean to say is that you know of one other person who has admitted this condition to you. You likely are surrounded by many people who will not speak of their personal situations to you.

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