Buying from a pawn shop

[jeff1]

I still use the string method, along with the scissors.

[AJ]

Boy, I'm glad I asked this question, I'm learning a lot about pawn shops and violin! I wonder, though, if anyone could recommend a book for someone like me who hasn't seen a lot of violins. Is there one out there with lots of pictures and descriptions? Thanks everyone for your responses.

[pahdah_hound]

Some of the best resources for photos are on line auction catalogs like Tarisio live auction catalogs from Skinner, Sotheby's etc. Back issues of Strad magazine are excellent.

If anyone knows of a book that can tell me how to identify a violin please let me know. I haven't found one. I am sure I can't identify a violin. Well, I guess thats not quite accurate. I can identify a violin. I can tell a violin from a trumpet or a piano really easily. I just cannot tell if its American, German, French, Chinese, Italian or good or bad, new or old. I have some clues but they are not always reliable.

Jesse

[Lenny]

Maybe it's different where you live but over here stolen instruments can and do end up in pawn shops and secondhand shops. This happened to one of my friends whose house was burgled. He was lucky enough to find his violin again in a pawn shop a few suburbs away. The shop owner had no idea what the instrument was worth, thank goodness, and he bought his own violin back rather than risk losing it in a police investigation.

Just a thought...

[AJ]

You are correct about pawn shop merchandise being a little 'shady' at times, but here the police have really cracked down on them. The ones that aren't reputable can all be found in the same general area, and one just needs to stay away from those. I have also found that if I walk into a pawn shop and get very poor service then I need to be suspicious as well. Certain pawn shops obviously suspect anyone who is not dressed a certain way, or acting a certain way, to be either a member of the police force, or someone who would report things to the police. I also stay away from these places. I actually saw a really nice German-made violin in a reputable pawn shop, problem was they knew the value of it and were asking $1500.

[TimRobinson]

From a blurb about the excellant TV doco "The Little Box that Sings:"

"The Little Box That Sings explores the world of Australian violin makers and how they fare in market where most top violinists prefer an Italian violin if they can afford one. Charmian Gadd is the violinist who became the owner of the violin shop,. The Violinery at Lindfield. In January her $200,000 Gofrilla violin was stolen from her house at Copacabana. It was found a month later in a Parramatta pawn shop, sold for $50 by a junkie. This theft brought Charmain a lot of publicity and concern from the publicity and concern from the public who had heard her play this magnificent instrument in the past. "

See: ABC Documentaries

Regards,

Tim

[Jacob]

I always thought that the name of that classical maker rhymed with "thriller" rather than "gorilla"

A while ago a local community orchestra included Haydn's 6th Symphony in a program. The PR person for the orchestra provided the info over the phone to a community newspaper, which duly announced in its following edition that the audience would be treated to a performance of the "delightful hide-and-seek symphony".

[peter smith]

Pawnshops have changed over the years. Used to be that pawned item were priced based on the Pawn Brokers knowledge of said items value. Which was sometimes faulty. And one could occasionally get a great deal. Nowdays they use the internet (Ebay) to price items. And tend to go for top dollar they find. I've actually seen used items priced higher than I could buy a new one for. People who worry over if the glass is half full or half empty miss the point. The glass is refillable.

[yancypup]

I bought a violin outfit from an old lady in 1975 for $60.00.  The violin was a Harwood which was a German trade instrument.  I found one at an online violin shop and they were asking $2500.  But the real story is the bow, it was an Otto Adler.  The violin was made between 1920 and 1922 and it looked almost new.  I brought it home and showed it to a fiddler who told me not to try and bring the strings up to pitch.  They were gut strings that had been on the violin since the '20s and he said they might break and take my eye out.

[Johnmasters]

I don't hang around pawn shops much, so I don't really know what they usually have, but I do know that they often sell new stuff just above the level of garbage. My first thought, then, would be that you should avoid like the plague anything in a pawn shop that looks remotely new. That leads me to say that if I had a choice between their shiny yellow one and the beat up one, I'd take the beater. Without being there to see it, that's the most I can say.

I agree with this.  If it is real user wear,  maybe there is a reason it has been so thoroughly used.  The best violin I ever had come in off the street was an ordinary German factory violin,  but had a lot of wear where you expect to find it.  It really sounded quite good to me.  It had the usual 4mm top,  and I explained about graduations.  I did thin it conservatively to the 3mm-2.5mm as I have done many times.  That is,  standard graduations but slightly on the strong side.

 

It was even better and the owner was delighted.  Eventually I revarnished for him and he is still happy.  I still believe that so many old factory violins are bad because they have been played briefly and then put into an attic.  The quality of wood in many of them is the sort we would all like to find today (for a reasonable price.)

 

And this leads to another point...  All of the discussion on the forum about fine points of construction seem to me to be overlooking an important point.  Violins really do play in (or play out).  It happens that most people like "old" which means partially "played out."   I recently completed two white violin finishes as a comparison.  The wood in one was overly soft for me, in the other,  it was stout.  I got more milage out of a new filler than any amount of graduation.  Of course,  the arching is important,  but this grade of Chinese violin seems to have copied a good arch from some old example.  I like the stout one better as it has a more incisive tone,  but they are not as different as the wood had made me guess. 

 

I think everyone is wasting their time looking for tiny subtleties in both their new violins and also older famous instruments.I hope this generates some controversy.

[Michael_Molnar]

I imagine that pawn shop owners immediately call in an expert to see if they really have a Stradivari. So. only something like Masters' German factory gem may slip through occasionally.

[Johnmasters]

I imagine that pawn shop owners immediately call in an expert to see if they really have a Stradivari. So. only something like Masters' German factory gem may slip through occasionally.

 

And I don't know if it was well-played because it sounded good or vice-versa  !!