celticagent Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Is there another glue you can recommend over the Behlen? Stewart MacDonald carries several Behlen products. They seem to like them a lot and I guess they use Behlen hide glue in their workshop. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodland Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 I've been purchasing my hide glue from Ed Campbell of The Chimneys Violin Shop. I'm not sure of his source, but I've been using it for years with good results and he sells it in 3 different strengths (or gram weights). He recommended the lowest weight (222) for glueing down tops, medium (315) for neck setting and the like, and heavy (379) for crack closure. You can reach him at: http://www.thechimneysviolinshop.com/ 717.258.3203 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
administrator Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Michael Darnton recommends Milligan & Higgins XFS Hide Glue. We don't carry Behlen's, so I don't know anything about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth_Leigh Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 I had bought some hide glue from International Violin, where I had no idea what brand it was, and it looks like caramel when heated and has that gluish odor. I read a while back where Michael referred to the Milligan and Higgins as the "gold standard" in the restoration business, so I ordered some off Adam Sweet's website. I haven't done much with it yet but it's clear when heated, doesn't smell as strongly, and I think I'm going to like this glue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmeng Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Funny you mentioned that. I just ordered some of International Violin's hide glue. Oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 I've used their glue. It works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth_Leigh Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Arf. Well, if it makes you feel any better, the glue from International Violin seems to work. My first violin was built with it, and hasn't fallen to pieces yet. If I was pinching pennies I would have just used it up over the next couple of years before buying new glue, but for heaven's sake the M&H glue from Adam's site was like $7 a lb or so plus a bit of shipping. I don't recall what my final tally was for 2 lbs, in the teens or so. I guess after reading Michael's comment I was curious about the M&H. It's clarity compared to the stuff from Int. Violin is probably an advantage if you're trying to hide repairs, but on the other hand if you can see the glue at all after your repair, you're probably doing it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiddlecollector Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 A place called woodfinishes.com sell it for 4$ a pound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apartmentluthier Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Any recommended mixing ratio for the Behlen's hide glue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Cover the glue with water, and then a bit more (water). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 From the "for what it's worth" dept. I used Behlens brand hide glue for about ten years. Then, the company I deal with (International Luthiers Supply) changed brands and now they ship J. E. Mosers hide glue. That, or they were back ordering the Behlens and substituted Mosers... I have also recieved some of a shippment of "special" granulated hide glue that is supposed to work "better than any other hide glue on the planet" from a luthier friend that I use when I run out of my normal stash, etc., etc., etc. They all work about the same. It's kind of like getting wood from one supplier, and then compairing it to someone else's wood. The big trick is learning how to work with what you have, and when it comes to glue, they all pretty much do the same thing and once you learn to work with granulated hide glue it really isn't a matter of finding the right one and only glue to use. Full strength glue is perfect for most jobs - thin it down for tops, use a dot for the nut, thin for fb's... The back and neck, ribs and blocks get full strength. Any problems you experience with Behens glue won't be the result of a problem with the quality of the glue, most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 We had a couple of bad bags of glue at the Violin Craftsmanship Institute. I'm not sure where they came from originally. Perhaps they had absorbed something unfortunate while being stored over the winter, I don't know -- but that glue would not really get to the finger-stick stage, and in the long run a glue joint made with it always gave way. We ended up discarding that whole lot. I also had a half-used box Behlens given to me that had the same problem. Now I always test the first batch of glue from a bag before using it. If you can't get it to annoyingly glue your fingers together, it's better to discard the whole lot now rather than to waste your time and have to do a job over. I prefer the Milligan & Higgins XFS Hide Glue, mainly because it doesn't stink the place up the way some hide glues do. I've never heard of anyone having a bad batch of it. --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackc Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Where do you get the Milligan & Higgins glue, Claire? Thanks. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggie Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 What is the difference in using a low weight hide glue versus a thinned hide glue of a higher gram weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Tucker Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 The following are brief excerpts from Frank Ford's on line Hide Glue and general glue information. Google "Hide Glue" and look around, there is almost too much information available. “Hide glue can be anywhere from dark brown to clear like this and there is no difference in the strength. It's just a matter of how much micro-filtration is used in the manufacturing process.” And “Glue is graded on a basis of its gel strength, a measure of how many grams of force it requires to depress a 1/2”” plunger 4mm. into a 12.5% protein solution of the glue at 10** C. Glue is manufactured in standard grades from 32 to 512 grams. 192 gram strength is the most commonly used for woodworking; 251 is the highest normally used for instrument building; 135 is the lowest used for general woodwork. The higher the gram strength, the stronger the cured glue, and the shorter the working or gel time. The lowest grades are considered strong enough for woodworking: ““stronger than the wood itself.”” (Personally, I don’’t think any glue deserves that sort of comment. It may be that strong only for certain tests; it is not the same as the wood itself.) It is never a good idea to dilute too strong a glue to obtain lower viscosity or longer working time when it is possible to use a lower grade of glue. Glues of different gram strengths may be mixed to get an intermediate. I like 192 gram ““high clarity”” because it’’s transparent and doesn't gel too fast.” http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Te...ehideglue1.html http://www.player-care.com/hideglue.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetmusic Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 A while back, Michael D mentioned he uses M&H XFS, and that's what turned me onto it primarily. Since then, many of my customers have mentioned to me how much they love it. My Dad even uses it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted February 4, 2005 Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 Hi jackc -- The website for M&H http://www.milligan1868.com/glue.html It's a good site for information, but you'd have to get a lot of friends together to make a wholesale order. Or, Jim Robinson at Renstrings sells supplies for the Violin Craftsmanship Institute -- I'm sure he could be pursuaded to sell some M&H glue at retail. --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryD Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 I buy the Milligan & Higgins from Highland Hardware in Atlanta. It's about $5.00 a pound. You can Google them and order it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSENGLO Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 I do not think it will be necessary to make another thread though is not exactly same topic. However, do you think if Titebond® Liquid Hide Glue could replace regular hide glue? it is will be very convinent if the statment is true according to the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 TSENGLO No. Barry, Thanks for the Highland tip on M&H. Just placed order. I've shopped there in past. It is safer to order online (or I'd spend toooo much) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSENGLO Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Regis, I agree with you the liquid hide glue, just as we 300 hundred years after Strad, could not reinvent the instrument, we could reinvent the glue. Though I now appreciate the modern tools which could enhance the VM, i.e. scanner from Xerox, bandsaw, etc. I also like to know what else I will need for the glue job beside the M&H glue? do I need heat pot and other stuffs? Man, it is non stop shopping since take this game up, it is so addictive. But it is a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regis Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 TSENGLO, I sure know about the "non stop shopping". But, this can be one of the least expensive. Get a small electric water pot. You can suspend small jar with glue in the water. Cost....$9.95 new or less at flea market. Michael Darnton has posted picture of his setup a couple times. I believe he said his has lasted a number of years without having to replace it. I was using hot plate with pot doing th same but, finally when to Walmat and bought one of those warmers. It has a lot better temp control that the hot plate. Regis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Darnton Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Here it is: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire Curtis Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Franklin Liquid Hide Glue contains extenders that prevent the glue from setting. It always retains a slight gumminess and capacity for creep that makes it a bad choice for violinmaking. I've seen it used in a few places for a temporary repair (better than superglue!) or for things like dabbing on the knot holding bow hair. Not for violinmaking. --Claire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSENGLO Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Regis, do you have picture of walmart warmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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