Picky teachers

[concertA]

Does your teacher ever get really picky about certain things? At my lesson on Friday all she did was yell at me about my 4th finger not being square enough. Sometimes she gets like that and focuses on one little thing.

Do your teachers do that from time to time? What are they picky about?

[fubbi2]

My teacher was always yelling at me to 'Sing!'

At the time, I thought he was crazy, because I was a fiddler, not a singer........now, I get it.

[SteveLaBonne]

Well, in defense of your teacher, these "little" posture things can sometimes cause major technique problems down the road. And they're a lot easier to correct before a bad habit has been thoroughly formed.

[xcheerleader]

My teacher is picky about everything! Mainly, she is always telling me to play out, louder, louder! I'm starting to think she could have a hearing problem. Of course, I am very new.

[concertA]

Yes, I agree, Steve. But...I'm sure there was a lot more going wrong than my 4th finger.

She just gets that way sometimes. She's really bad if she's been to a workshop.

[1stviolinist]

My teacher is always picky about bowings. Even when my bow is backwards and I fix it, if he notices (and he almost always does) I have to stop, go back and play the right bowings. Since I only work on solos on my lesson, I don't really see what the big deal is if I mess up the bowing one time in my lesson. Oh well. There could be worse things to be picky about I suppose.

[reedman]

Be glad you have picky teachers. They are expecting something from you. There is nothing worse than listening to music students of teachers who have no standards of playing, or teachers that are so insecure/unsure in their own playing that they think anything goes. Students tend to like the latter. It is certainly easier than working for a standard.

[Scott Bailey]

Too darned true. I'm still rebuilding my technique because I had teachers when I was younger who didn't care much about the physical aspect of playing. As long as I played the right notes with the right dynamics, I could've been bowing with my foot. I think it was just laziness on their part, as they were both fine players, but lousy teachers.

[Taenias]

I want my teacher to be picky. I want her to tell me when I'm doing something wrong, so I can focus on correcting it. Of course, at my stage, there are so many things wrong, it must be hard for her to pick what to get picky about. Counting mistakes are an easy choice. You think it should be easy to count to 4 in a consistent manner... :sigh:

I also like encouraging remarks, of course. But I don't like it when she says, OK, that's good enough. I want each piece to be as good as I can manage before I move on. As an adult beginner, I'm under no pressure to get to a specific point by the end of the semester. Or year. I would like to become adequate before I croak.

[MsMazas]

My teacher can get pretty obsessed with things, but in the long run they're good. He picks on me about my posture a lot, but that's not news. He also gets nit-picky about my bow hold, and my left hand when I'm up in the 9th-13th position range (the "snow country"). He's constantly nagging me to point my fingers up, but it helps, A LOT.

--Mazas

[La Folia]

Teachers should be picky about one thing at a time, and they shouldn't be yelling at students. I had a teacher who yelled about everything, and if I fixed all that, he'd yell about something else. He was famous for that. I stuck with it for a while, but the fun was gone, and I quit. He ultimately got demoted from his exalted position to a minor job in the boondocks.

You shouldn't be playing anything where there's too much to fix at one time. But, it's important to get it right from the beginning. On the other hand, a teacher should not expect wonderful legato bowing from the beginning. At first, it's enough just to hold the darned thing. Then maybe a few short strokes done well at your level, etc. There's time for refinement and improvement later, but it should be done basically correctly before moving on, until finally you can bow like Perlman. But one thing at a time!

[technique_doc]

I get picky LOTS

While a piece is being learned, there is very little scope for incorrect/unsatisfactory fingerings/intonation or bowings. Once the piece is good then I may listen to other technical points of view. I rarely get in the way of correct or acceptable (but individual) musicality.

When it comes to technique, trust your teacher. I get in a *terrible* state over all sorts of technique basics and I know my students sometimes leave wanting to SCREAM but if I didn't do it, I'd be failing in my duty.

I sometimes go over the same thing endlessly one week and then leave it to rest (eg. like vibrato or place of contact between bridge and f-board or use of upper arm) because I know these things take time and it isn't 'till the student listens and takes it on board *properly* that I can trust them with it.

My teacher would throw me out on occasion over minor 'picky' things but......it darn well taught me what was really important to her.

Forgive us that do our jobs well but sometimes lose track of sensibility - it's usually because we know you can do it so much better.

T_D

[One_Tree_Hill]

I don't like it when any teacher constantly brings up things that I am already aware of. For example, a couple of years ago I was working on my intonation intensely, and a teacher I worked with a little bit used to stop me on every single note to tell me that it was out of tune. I guess it worked, because my intonation is one of my strengths now, but it was so annoying, and not really helpful after awhile.

On the other hand, a LITTLE hassling can be good. I mean, you can't expect to go to a lesson and not get any criticism, or there would be no point.

[iupviolin]

My teacher's all about "opening up" and "releasing tension". She talks about it every lesson! but its only to burn in into my skull so that I'll remember it.

[Michael Darnton]

Having heard the other side of it numerous times from teachers--I can report that many of them have a bit of tongue-in-cheek attitude about their nagging: it works, so they do it, but it's sort of a stunt that they wish they didn't have to use to make students pay attention. The key phrase from your post might be "I guess it worked, because my intonation is one of my strengths now". :-) The reason I have nice handwriting is because of a jerk teacher who told me that because I'm left-handed I'd never be able to write well. :-)

[technique_doc]

The teacher at my first school (when I was 7) told me I wouldn't be able to play the Violin (come to classes) because I was left handed.

15 yrs later she got such a shock when I graduated from the RCM! and walked straight into pro work!!!

[La Folia]

There's another way. Instead of "NO! NO! NO!" there's "Good. Your intonation (or your handwriting, etc.) is a little better today."

This has two effects: (1) it reminds the student of what is to be worked on and (2) it inspires further, enthusiastic effort. On the other hand, continual criticism makes the student grouchy and tired of the subject.

In training animals there's a concept called clicker training. When the animal makes a motion toward the desired action, the trainer instantly makes a click with one of those little carnival clickers, or some other appropriate noise. That's an instant reinforcement that leaves no doubt about being on the right track, and it's a sign that some sort of reward will be coming. Indeed, the feeling of accomplishment is a reward in itself.

It works for professional animal trainers, and it works with human animals too. You don't use a clicker, of course, but "good" or "better" or "you're getting the idea" works fine.

Now if you're working on intonation in a passage, don't worry if the bowing deteriorates a little. You're working on intonation, right? It's good, with one bad point. Don't worry -- both bowing and intonation will come together later.

What about a persistent problem? I would say, be persistent rather than picky. And know when to drop it and when to come back to it. I wouldn't say there's never a place for negative reinforcement, but it should be limited. In the long run, you can generally get a better response from positive reinforcement.

Remember: positive, not negative.

[Daisy]

When does picky turn into too picky? My teacher told me yesterday that after working like a dog for two years in a conservatory program, that my playing still isn't good enough to transfer into 3rd year of the university even though I have straight As. I realize that I don't play as well as some of his other students. He admits that it is not because I don't try but because I had a very slow start and I don't catch onto things very fast (by his standards anyway). I know I have a lot of problems, but saying that I'll fail a 3rd year recital and that I probably wouldn't have gotten into a performance major last year seems kind of drastic to me. I work really hard but I'm getting sick of it when it seems like I have so much further to go. Nothing's ever half full, it's always half empty... or emptier. I swear I don't play that badly. I was in the National Youth Orchestra twice, and I've worked with a lot of other people who say that I have potential. I don't know whether I'm really that bad or whether my teacher is just being unreasonable. But how on earth do I figure out? And to lay all this on me at the first lesson in almost 2 months where broken elbow was healed enough so that I could even PLAY... Are we being realistic here?????

[La Folia]

You certainly deserve a reply. I'm not the best one to give it, but I'll try. I'm not sure anyone here is able to give you the opinion you need.

I think you've just got to get another opinion. It might help if you could measure yourself against other people who have succeeded with similar career goals to yours, or to decide if you can succeed with lowered expectations. But how with a recently broken elbow?

My gut reaction is that something about the situation isn't right. The circumstance of his announcement sounds peculiar too, and not very kind. How can you believe in yourself if your teacher doesn't believe in you? Everyone needs a mentor, and I don't think you have one. Is he a super teacher who's just giving it to you straight? Or is he trying to skim the cream? Quite honestly, I don't think I could stay with any teacher who was always negative, unless you have a lot of determination, self-confidence, and a very thick skin. If it's as bad as you say, I'd change either schools, teacher, or career. Best of luck.

[Michael Darnton]

Sometimes it's just best to call things quits, and find another option (in this case, another teacher). I can't say that this is one of those cases, but that option should always be under consideration in everything one does, I believe.

[StringDad]

Daisy, I just want to throw in with the previous two replies. I haven't heard you play, but I'm not sure it really matters; if what you've described about this teacher's attitude is accurate (and I'll assume for the moment that it is), this doesn't sound like a particularly good/healthy situation for your playing or emotional well being.

Even if we're getting a lopsided view of your situation, the point is that you're feeling this way about all this. Maybe this guy's fine for other students; he still doesn't sound like the best teacher for you. You deserve a teacher that supports and helps you -- a teacher that inspires you and makes you remember why you began the study of music in the first place. Accept no less.

Best of luck.

[technique_doc]

Dear Daisy,

I wanted to cover a few things here, hopefully in an unbiased way, so please do not take offence.

Every teacher approaches their students in a different way. My teacher never purposefully made me upset or degraded my playing because he knew I couldn't take it. He was hard on most of the others though because for the majority they were fairly arrogant and needed tough love. If he doesn't respect you for yourself - you NEED another teacher. If he took you on, understanding you started late etc. etc. it is his/her duty to stand by you. That does mean being hard at times and sometimes the truth is painful. However, there are times when this is presented poorly by the teacher - we all make mistakes. My playing during my second year wouldn't have got me onto a performance major, but I was having a bad time and I got through the other side. I KNOW you work hard and if the passion is there, there is more than one route so don't despair. One of my friends 'flunked' straight out of the top music school to the lowest-standard college I know, but 3 yrs later she got a 2 yr post-grad to the top conservatoire in the UK.

We all have highs and lows, although it will feel like others are doing better, especially if they are more advanced and seem to posses the right level of skill for guaranteed succces.

If you don't get support, make a change. If he has been too tough, ask for a short chat about things (leave your violin at home) and find out whether he really fears for your future. If he won't spare the time, get out of there and make a fresh start.

A good teacher is often insecure about his/her students and will pick on the weakest as a self-defense mechanism for when things go wrong. How often do relationships seriously deteriorate when a major hurdle looms so as to 'sway' the responsibility away from the professor to the student? Either you work hard or you don't. Your teacher needs to be told when they have overstepped the mark, and you need to face hard facts and not let setbacks spoil your focus.

I suspect you are frustrating him, if this makes the relationship unbearable find someone to care for you as a person firstly. If he is just being unreasonable, talk it through and investigate further.

PM me please if there are specifics.

T_D

[La Folia]

Wow!