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Guess which artist is winning at my elementary school: Bell or Milstein?


Theresa
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quote:

Originally posted by Sean:

That said, I would much rather hear Bell than Milstein perform something like the Faure Sonata!

I'd much rather hear Gingold than Bell perform the Faure Sonata.

Sometimes I wonder why Bell didn't learn ANY of Gingold's vibrato and shifts...

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quote:

Originally posted by stewarts:

I'd much rather hear Gingold than Bell perform the Faure Sonata.

Sometimes I wonder why Bell didn't learn ANY of Gingold's vibrato and shifts...

As many others, I much prefer the older style of soloists--sounds like you do too. Cleanliness of shifting, etc. and historically stylistic purity have become the topmost goals. This seems to have been elevated in importance--at the expense of individual style and personal artistic expression, use of a constant, multi-faceted vibrato and personally-stylistic "saavy".

It's not the soloists' fault, they are simply following current trends. However, if a whole new generation of soloists come along stressing personal style, a more "romantic" style of emotional play, good vibrato, interesting but tasteful use of shifts and other nifty effects, etc., the present "scrubbed clean--100% perfection" sound will be no more. Personally, I can hardly wait for it to happen...Perfection belongs in a museum, not in a forum for public entertainment.

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Alison wrote: I have realized the seriousness and wrongness of my actions. My actions were inexcusable, and I sincerely apologize for what I did.

Today I have learned a sobering and humbling lesson.

This will be my last post at Maestronet.

Alison, please forgive me my ignorance, but I can't imagine what it is you believe you did that was so bad. Unless I missed the terrible one, your posts in this thread have been a model of sobriety and good sense. Could you explain your transgression? Or if not explain, please simply rethink your decision to keep silent/leave?

[This message has been edited by Mairead (edited 05-14-2000).]

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I do find the sensitivity of Bell's fans to the commentary about his looks rather amusing. Undeniably, some significant portion of the younger generation of soloists have not exactly been hurt by their looks, and have gone out of their way to emphasize them.

Someone mentioned maturity and the "over 40" age thing -- and it's worth noting, given that most of recordings we're acquainted with date from the "mature" periods of the great artists.

However, I've noticed that the over-40 crowd seems to not be in very much demand. Perlman has certainly passed the height of his playing, IMHO, at least as far as what he's committed to record goes. Kyung Wha Chung, Gidon Kremer, Elmar Oliveira, etc. while all superb players, just don't draw the kind of attention that the latest crop of teenagers or twenty-somethings do -- and these are the folks who probably *have* fulfilled the promise of their younger days. We've forgotten about all the ones who didn't.

I would argue that today's concertizing schedule does not permit a young artist time to mature in their music, or really develop much in the way of a personal life. Will someone like Bell really sound much better than he does now, when he's forty-something?

Don't get me wrong -- I like Joshua Bell's playing. But I can't recognize him on the radio, and I have yet to hear anything of his in the standard repertoire that makes me feel like he made a new and significant contribution to its interpretation. (I do like the fact he's championing some new music, like the Red Violin, and the new Maw concerto.)

But he's blown away by the recordings made of the faded-and-gone generation of virtuosi when they were his age: Milstein, Heifetz, Menuhin, etc. who even at that age had something deeply and uniquely personal to "say" in their music.

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Mairead,

what Alison was referring too, didn't take place here, but at another site. After a few days to reflect on what happened, I will admit that I may have overreacted somewhat to it anyway. While it was not a pretty thing that happened, I don't believe it was ever meant to cause me personally, any harm, but rather, as something that just got a little out of hand. I was concerned that someone else from the other site, might come here to the fingerboard and judge me later, for some things said there.

I agree with you HuangKaiVun, that Alison has a lot to offer this board and I would like for her to feel welcome to help others here in the future.

Pete

[This message has been edited by Pete (edited 05-15-2000).]

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quote:

Originally posted by Lydia Leong:

But I can't recognize him on the radio,

That's interesting. I don't like him very much, but I am very confident that I can recognize him on the radio.

He doesn't use a lot of vibrato and always goes for a clean sound more than anything else, and when he does use vibrato, it's usually moderately high frequency and relatively small amplitude. He sounds "mild" even in the most fiery passages.

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Final score in this year's "Battle of the Bows"

Nathan Milstein ("The Quiet Man"): 489;

Joshua Bell ("The Handsome Young Man") 141

Suggestions for Next Year's Battle? Two exciting interpretations by two world-class artists of something under 10 minutes--total, no more than 20 minutes for the two?

TR

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Theresa: Thanks for providing such an interesting topic! The kids really have good ears. smile.gif The comment about Milstein looking a bit like an old James Bond made me smile. smile.gif Was he/she referring to Sean Connery or Roger Moore? To me, his actual playing sometimes reminds me of Bond a bit because of his uncanny elegance and dandyism (I am not using the word "dandyism" as negative term, just to make sure). Milstein was also extremely handsome when he was younger, and aged very well (he looked supremely elegant and trim in the documentaly film made in the late 1980s).

A few words about Alfredo Campoli. He was born in 1906 in Italy. His father was a violinist who played at La Scala around the same time the young Arturo Toscanini was playing a cello in the same orchestra. His mother was an opera singer. Alfredo studied mainly with his father and made a very rapid progress. During the 1920s and 30s, due to economic reasons, he organized a salon orchestra and appeared with them all over England, his adopted country. He returned to Classical music after the World War II and had a distinguished career. He had a beautiful, singing tone with extremely solid technique. He was especially reknowned for his interpretations of romantic concerti and short pieces. He died in 1991. David Tunley recently published a biography of Campoli that is available from www.ashgate.com His Kreisler album was published in 1955 to celebrate the 80th birthday of Kreisler.

For next year's battle, how about Saint-Saens "Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso" with Heifetz and Sarah Chang. That would be pretty interesting.

[This message has been edited by Toscha (edited 05-15-2000).]

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quote:

Originally posted by Toscha:

For next year's battle, how about Saint-Saens "Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso" with Heifetz and Sarah Chang. That would be pretty interesting.

[This message has been edited by Toscha (edited 05-15-2000).]

I object smile.gif

I think Sarah Chang is at her worst playing a piece like Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso. The result is not going to be 489 vs 141. It's going to be 630 vs 0.

How about Sarasate's Zapateado for the same two persons? This way she has a chance -- If you haven't listened to Chang's Zapateado before, I'd strongly urge you to.

(Toscha, I suppose you just want to use an extreme example to demonstrate how much better the old school is? smile.gif Why not make it Vanessa Mae's scottish fantasy vs Heifetz's?)

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Lydia,

"However, I've noticed that the over-40 crowd seems to not be in very much demand . . . "

It could be because they rebel at the thought of giving 365 concerts a year, and they have a personal life off-stage. Perhaps with their careers solidified they can better do what is best for each as a person, not just as a violinist. Their management of course will want them to play as many concerts as possible and make as much money for them as possible, but mature artists are more in a position to dictate a reasonable schedule that does not sacrifice mental and physical health.

AB

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stwarts: I did not really picked Heifetz and Chang combination to demonstrate the superiority of the old school. But the fact is, if the two performances sound too similar, then it would be rather difficult to vote for one or the other. Theresa's choice of Milstein and Bell was excellent one, because there is very little chance that the kids will confuse one from the other.

Heifetz and Chang will be very easily distinguishable, thus easier to vote (and I did not want to re-use Bell to compare with Heifetz).

At the same time, if ancient recordings of Ysaye, Kreisler or Thibaud were to be used against today's digital recordings, the first thing the children will likely to hear is the quality of the RECORDED sound, rather than performance. I fear that will defeat the purpose. Heifetz' "Rondo Capriccioso" is not a new recording, but it still sounds quite reasonable, and the piece is relatively short and definitely fun to listen to. Thus my choice.

There can be all kinds of combinations, like say, Ricci/Markov for any of Paganini caprice, or Rosand/Barton for Sarasate, etc.

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