Tight Grained Spruce

[tbloemer]

Heres a link to the top of the Hensel Violin that I had posted about earlier, seeking information on that maker. The violin has a great sound. Anyway, The top of the violin has the tightest grain I've ever seen in a piece of spruce. At certin places on the top it is so close that the growth rings are almost indistinguishable. This slow growth european spruce must be difficult to come by. Is this quality spruce still available?

http://members.aol.com/tbloemer/spruce.jpg

[Michael Darnton]

I think you're making the assumption that more is better, which is not the case. Yes, you can get it, but most people don't want it.

[tbloemer]

Thanks for the reply Michael.I guess that begs the question then, What are the contemporary makers or any makers for that matter looking for? Perhaps a graduated grain from wider at the bass side to tight at the treble? Is it a matter of tonal physics or a makers preference? Does the amount of aging matter as much on the spruce top as it does on the other woods? What are the percentage moisture contents of the different woods makers are looking for?

[Michael Darnton]

I look for wood which has a medium to wide grain width across it. Two pieces means the fine stuff is in the middle of the top. No particular reason for this on my part except that the German makers, who aren't relatively respected used the finest stuff there is, and the better-appreciated Italians used medium to wide, so I prefer to go with the winners--I need all the help I can get. Some of the good Italians, Guadagnini, for instance, even used very wide-grained wood. Generally, the older the better--I've seen some wonderful violins made from 80 year old wood, but there isnt' enough of that to go around, so we take what we can get. But I'd rather have new good wood than old bad wood, overall, and a lot of the old wood people come up with is the wrong species, etc.

Getting dry wood isn't that hard--most of what's sold has the proper moisture content, but hasn't aged enough to stabilize, which is another issue entirely.

[steveg]

Might that not be Larch ?

I have a Joseph Kloz with the exact same type of top, and it was identified as larch.

[Michael Darnton]

That would be my pick of the three.

[William Johnston]

I would rank them as 1. Sitka 2. Red 3. a very distant third for engleman unless you're combining it with a poplar back and then I'd put it at number one. Red spruce sounds as good as Sitka but it is so stiff that it has to be carved very thin to get a good tone and once it's thin it becomes brittle.

[bob kogut]

William, I'm curious as to why one would want to match the Englemann top with a Poplar back?

Does the relative softness of Poplar have something to do with it?

Thanks, Bob

[Michael Darnton]

It would be interesting to hear what a wood guy has to say--my understanding has always been that larch would be an unsuitable wood for any violin top, given an uncomfortable tendency to split on its own.

[Randy Gardner]

I've heard the hypothesis that the wider the grain of the wood, the thicker the top needs to be to get the best tone. Anyone want to comment on experience or thoughts about this idea?

[DelDuca]

While we are on the subject of spruce, would anyone care to rank their choice of Sitka, Red, and Engleman? Is Red really number one for North American spruce?