helicore strings and tone

[Lane]

Greetings all. First post here. I am fairly new to the violin (fiddles here in NC). I play mostly folk and blue grass music. The tone from my fiddle is best described as tinny. The fiddle is an old czec strad copy,

moderate quality and pushing 80 years. Strings are super sensitive red labels. Would a change to helicore strings soften the sound and give me a little of the depth and richness I'm looking for? If so I need some recomendations. Thanks for your input; by the way--- great board.

[toc]

Well, as a fiddler, let me give you a little advice.

Take those SuperSens and THROW THEM INTO THE TRASH. NOW. Then perform an exorcism before you put new strings on. Those strings are at least partly responsible for the tinny sound. I started out on SuperSens and still remember how much less tinny my fiddle started when I switched.

They're horrible, almost as bad as Palatinos.

I play old-timey and Irish, and I like D'Addario Pro-Artes.

[This message has been edited by toc (edited 03-06-2001).]

[Trent_Hill]

I second what toc says regarding Super-Insensitives. Try the Helicores--they'll be much better, regardless of whether you stick with them or not.

[RANDALL MONTGOMERY]

I've been using helicores, and I'm having a hard time with rosen buildup. I've tried 4 or 5 different ones now. As soon as there's any buildup on the strings, the fiddle sounds like a brick. Hill dark built up the quickest. I've tried using as little rosen as possible, but I end up with all slide and no stick.

Anyone else have trouble with this? Or is it poor technique on my part?

Randy

[toc]

I don't recall ever trying Helicores. Have you used Pro-Artes? How would you compare them?

[This message has been edited by toc (edited 03-06-2001).]

[David B]

Randy,

How much rosin are you putting on? You should apply about 3 slow swipes with the bow every 2-3 days (assuming playinf 1-3 hrs a day). Any more than this will cause build-up. After each practice be sure to wipe the strings down to remove any rosin.

[Lane]

Thanks for posts. Which string has the softest sound the helicores or the pro artes?

[caleb]

Lane: i know it depends on the fiddle, but on my good fiddle helicores are just right, pro artes are WAY to bright. on my cheaper fiddles that have no oomph in their sound, helicores are just DEAD and pro artes liven them up a little. and i had tried the pro artes because they were recommended in a way that made me believe that for that person they gave a rounder tone. so what works for others is no guarantee it'll work for you.

i heard people rave about Evah Pirazzis and i'm sorry i bought them...didn't work on ANY fiddle i had.

from the posts on the FB it seems like the strings that worked on the most fiddles were the Infeld Reds. alot of people tried them and really liked them. i liked them, too, but compared to the helicores they were a little too bright and their sensitivity showed off all my bowing irregularities. but there were a lot of beginners that liked them so maybe that was just my fiddle.

Randall: i noticed the same things with mine, but i can't say that it's the strings and not the player in my case, either. they do seem to sound best when they're new.

[bob kogut]

Lane, for fiddling bluegrass,try the Helicore Heavy gauge they seem to respond better in that style of playing then the mediums.Give them a few days to settle in. When they are brand new they feel kind of spongy, but a few hours of hard playing makes them right. If you are used to playing on the Super Sensitive's,it may take a couple weeks to get used to them, but you'll find that the Helicores give more color and resonance to your fiddle.

...Nice to hear from a fellow NC fiddler on the board!

Bob

[toc]

Caleb:

You make a good case for the Helicores. I'm playing a '22 Heberlein and an old stamped Stainer; neither are great fiddles by any means.

What are you playing the Helicores on? You've got me interested.

[andy989]

The difference between Helicores and Pro-Artes? Both are warm, but being steel, Helicores are thinner and more response. Pro-Arte is a synthetic string...not a great one in my mind; i've found they sound a little crude on better instruments, that is quite a bit thicker than Helicore, with a warmer and looser yet less refined sound, in my opinion.

[toc]

I think they're priced about the same, so I'll give Helicores a try next time. But, getting back to the beginning of this thread, anything (except Palatinos) beats Super Sensitives.

Thanks.

[Lane]

Thanks everyone for the advice --- I ordered the helicores this morning.

[caleb]

toc:

on the inside mine says:

Fried Aug Glass verfertigt nach Antonius Stradivarus Fies Fa= abat in Cremona.A o 1736.

i asked about it on the FB and got this answer from Marsden:

"The label indicates that it is made by Friedrich August Glass. He is a member of the large Glass family of German violin makers. Apparently a lot of violins from many sources ended up with Glass labels in them, or the name stamped on the back, similar to Hopf. The label you have indicates that it was completed in the style of Stradivarius, and made by Friedrich August Glass the second. There were three members of the family by that name based on information from the Universal Dictionary of Violin and Bow Makers. The maker was good enough to have won a gold medal, but the question is as always - is it original? If it is, it would have been made around 1850.

I have always been interested in this maker, but never played one."

a luthier had also told me it was german made, over 100 years old and worth about $2,000. i got it for $200 when i didn't have a clue about violins, so i'm happy with it to say the least. it was set up as a fiddle, gaspari pegs, old ones that i can't find a replacement for anymore. it sounds great in the right hands (not mine i originally got them cos i heard Mark O'Connor (i know, toc, one of your favorites!) used them and i liked the sound he gets on slower tunes. i did try the heavy guage but couldn't get the G string to sound and they were too hard on my fingers. i was also advised that since i like to tune my fiddle down 1/2 step that light guage would probably be preferable...they are easier on the pads.

[toc]

Welll....

I was just unsure whether my fiddles are good enough to put the Helicores on. I'd reckon them at about $1,000 per.

BTW, hope I didn't come down too hard on Mr. O'Connor. I do admire his talent immensely and would give my left, um...earlobe to be able to play like that.

[caleb]

toc: i didn' mean to label my fiddle by price. it'd sound good no matter what it cost. i bought one for $500. should have thought that one over. not real impressed with it. so i don't think the $ amount makes a difference necessarily and i've got those two plus two $40 specials i picked up and although 4 fiddles might sound a little excessive (i've heard of worse) i still feel my experience with them is very limited. but seeing as how helicores aren't overly expensive and you've got more than one to try them on, if it was me, i'd go for it. lots of people like them.

and regarding o'connor: some people like to knock someone that's good just because it makes them feel knowledgable to take someone down a peg or two, some people have honest informed criticism, and some people just don't like some players and informed/uninformed as their opinion might be, that's what music's all about, no? i don't remember exactly what you ever said about o'connor, but i'm sure it wasn't mean-spirited and besides he's no relation of mine. i was just busting your chops.

i used to not like natalie mcmasters (gasp)cos i'd never heard her play anything that i liked. all the things i'd heard her play just seemed to be noise produced to show off technique, but they were assuredly favorite tunes in someone's eyes. and as a matter of fact o'connor songs that i like are few and far between, but when it's a goodie, it's a REAL goodie!

sorry so gabby.

[toc]

Hey, "Gabby":

Points well taken. I love some of Natalie's stuff and hate some of it, too.

O'Connor is far from my favorite fiddler, but boy can he play.

The Helicores won't break the bank, so they're next on my list.

mike

[RANDALL MONTGOMERY]

Howdy folks,

Had to go work a half day(12 hours).

David B.- I try to be very easy on the amount of rosin I put on.

Caleb- I've had a few people tell me that the helicores load up very easy. Then the fiddle sounds like a brick. But they still use the strings, and like them.

Has anyone tried different types of rosin with the helicores?

[Trent_Hill]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RANDALL MONTGOMERY:

Has anyone tried different types of rosin with the helicores?

---

I wouldn't use Hill Dark on a bet, though the Hill Light is pretty good. I use Millant-Deroux and have very little problem with rosin buildup. But you really do have to be careful with how much you use, regardless of the string type or brand. I draw my bow lightly across the block once or twice, no more than once a week, and I practice about an hour a day. I wipe the bowing area of the strings after every practice, and clean them with a little alcohol applied to a cloth about once a week.

If you wipe off your strings after practicing, you shouldn't get enough of a rosin buildup to affect your sound noticeably unless you're using a LOT of rosin.

[RANDALL MONTGOMERY]

There have been a few threads about Millant-Deroux rosin. Most folks were positive about it. I'll give it a try.

Thanks,

Randy

[Archinto]

I use helicores on both my old fiddle and my viola. They're great strings. All my "fiddling" friends swear by them.

-Archinto-

RANDALL MONTGOMERY, the millant deroux rosin is excellent! I got a cake a year ago and I love how it works.

[This message has been edited by Archinto (edited 03-11-2001).]

[2Violet]

RANDALL MONTGOMERY: Yes, Millant-Deroux is a great rosin! I started a thread a while back to ask people what they thought of it, and based on the very positive response, I ordered a cake of their "light" rosin to try for myself. I've been really impressed with it so far.

[dobro]

How about the Prim strings.Anybody tried those?And regarding bluegrass:What do you think of Stuart Duncan?

[Tenor1]

Randall, someone on E-Bay sells the M-D rosin for only $5 a cake for either the regular or silver & gold. His shop is in NYC. Sorry I don't have his address (I'm at work). Maybe someone will read this and post the necessary information for you.

[bob kogut]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dobro:

How about the Prim strings.Anybody tried those?And regarding bluegrass:What do you think of Stuart Duncan?

---

Dobro, In my opinion, Prim Strings are about the best you can find for all around fiddling.Don't let their low cost mislead you.They note extremely well, hold up a long time compared to other strings, give a real nice deep bottom end on the G string. Even though they are steel strings, there is something about them that is much better than the other types of steel strings out there.

I keep trying other brands, thinking that I am missing something, but always end up going back to the Prim's.

The only downside to them is they have a little more bow noise which one might notice in playing slow quiet passages, but not noticeable in typical fiddling.

Try 'em, Bob

[This message has been edited by bob kogut (edited 03-12-2001).]