Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'top plate'.
Found 7 results
Regardless if (or if not) the ground is the magic trick to get the ultimate sound (are we talking about secrets??), I prefer to think about it like what can the ground do and what it can’t do in relation to the sound. And for making a discussion as focused as possible I want to limit it to the top plate assuming that it has there most impact. (Note: please no discussion about wood treatment, that’s something different) While a good ground can enhance the optical impression of the color varnish, this does not necessarily mean that it works best for the acoustics. I am not interested here in the Cremonese ground or other old recipes. (We assume it is the best ground we can get, but is there any real evidence for it?) I am more interested in a general view. So I am asking myself a few questions. 1. How does the sound change with a hard ground versus a soft ground? There are some pretty intriguing statements. No one less than Roger Hargrave says that since he is using the POP ground he is not afraid any more that his violins have no (good) projection in a hall. (And he is certainly someone who knows what he is talking about) Soft ground materials like propolis seem to have lost focus in the violin world. 2. Does weight matter, or can we ignore it, because it is insignificant? If I try for example the extreme case of using a lead pigment what would this do? (In practical terms it would be possible to cook Massicot (lead orange) in linseed oil to dissolve it entirely.) It seems that some modern noise absorbing varnishes use heavy ingredients to absorb engine sound from cars. So would a heavy ground rather risk to mute the sound? Or could certain formulas filter part of the spectrum? Then it would be desirable to filter a region that should be rather low, the nasal Formant for example. 3. if the ground is not only in the wood but raises above (presumably making the halo effect) what happens then? And in theory if we would just continue and make the ground very thick so that it reaches the weight of the ungrounded plate? (Would be intriguing to think that the thickness would have a certain desirable effect.) 4. Would it make a difference if the plate is sandwiched in between the ground which means the same ground is applied in the inside of the instrument too? Or, if the ground is only on one side, does this create an ‘imbalance’ for the vibrating plates? 5. Last not least the penetration into the wood should in theory make a difference. We could see it as an anchor effect. For example it should make a difference how much glue is thinned down if it is applied as a ground. (And can have pretty attractive looking results too) 6. And one more: is there any (fundamental?) difference between mineral, resinous, glue based, emulsion or oil ground? And for minerals, dies size of the particles matter? (In theory a Nano particle filler should be somewhere different to much bigger particles, not only for the depth of penetration but also the density of the particle layer.) I would suggest that answers refer to the points I made and if someone can think about something which was not on my radar it would continue as number 7) Hopefully this thread won’t end in a silly YouTube as defending argument to something which is not related to this topic) Let’s have a debate/discussion which is on-topic and not off-topic.Knowing how heated argument exchanges can become, disagreement is welcome, but with respect to other participants please. (Stay calm, ladies and gentlemen)
What is this line across the top of my viola called?
Tchaikovsky posted a topic in The PegboxHi! I am new to this site. I’ve been trying to find out what the line on my viola top plate is called. You can see it in the picture attached under the left f hole. My teacher couldn’t recall what it is called, but he says that good instruments have unique things like this that reinforces certain frequencies and provides better resonance. I don’t know how true that is, but I’d still like to find out what this line is called.
Glueing Plates to ribs
nbar posted a topic in The PegboxHello Fellow Members, First, I hope that everyone is safe and staying home as much as possible in these difficult times. I am relatively new to violin making. I have heard that you are able to adjust the thickness or consistency of hide glue. And that you are able to extend the working time of hide glue with the addition of urea. For gluing the back and top plates unto the ribs how many grams of hide glue is recommended? And how many grams of urea? As for using urea I have heard up to 10% but I just wanted to check with more experienced luthiers before I go any further. Thank, in advance, for any of your thoughts. Stay safe. Best, nbar
Effects of higher elevation on plate tops
Michael H posted a topic in The PegboxIt has been brought to my attention by a potential client that certain topographical elevations can affect the construction of instruments. The concern was that a cello that has lived a young life at 1,500ft will be affected by a new life at 7,000ft. I was told by this potential client that luthiers in high elevations dismantle the cello and reglue the top plate and neck. I have never heard of this practice, but am interested. It makes sense, in theory, but have no experience in the matter, though, I will say that have I had no complaints. Can anyone shed some light on the subject?
bass bar About very flexible top plate and bass bar
Ahmedivarius posted a topic in The PegboxHi everybody, I need your opinions about the bass bar. I am making a new violin, form model is Guarneri Kreisler 1733. My used sound plate wood is 20 yearly, very dry but very soft and flexible on X and Y axis. My used thicknesses are on middle 33 mm and on the top and end 25-26 mm. And sound plate is 62 gr. The structure of the veins are narrow (1-1.2 mm), flat and regular. (I will add photos) Now, I think about the bass bar making. I have to make a strong bass bar, but the bass bar won't interfere with the flexible of the top plate. So, I did make bass bar thickness 6 mm. And I think I'll make the highest point 12.8 mm and end portions 3,8 - 4 mm. But, So, while this is the case, how can I make te bass bar form shape ? I saw on luis claudio manfio's violin, he make a flat shapes bass bar. Is that what I should do? or any different shapes, or original ?
Curious- black looking marks
epe913 posted a topic in The PegboxI was doing a routine inspection of my violin today and got to wondering about something... hoping someome more knowledgeable can clear up my curiosity... My violin has these black marks all around the top edge of the ribs where the top plate is glued on. But not anywhere else. Is this discolored glue residue? Varnish? Lead? Just was looking closer at things and was wondering what those marks were from in my violin's past. Here is a photo Thanks for clearing up my curiosity!
Re-gluing top, lining/ chamfering question
sabaugher posted a topic in The PegboxHi guys! So, I'm about to re-glue a top plate to a clunker violin I opened up recently. I noticed that there's lining/ chamfering that helps support the glue joint where the ribs meet the back plate. I also noticed that I might have cut through some kind of lining between the ribs and the top plate when I removed the top plate. My questions are 1. Am I correct in thinking that when a violin box is initially closed up construction, there is lining/chamfering (of willow or spruce) installed to re-enforce the connection of the top plate to the ribs? 2. If so, any tips for installing that lining? 3. When re-gluing the top plate, must I first do something to prepare the lining/ chamfering? Is is acceptable to not pay attention to the lining when re-gluing a top plate? (I'd rather err on the side of caution and *pay attention to it*, that way the repair is done as well as possible ;D ) Thanks for the help, guys! I really appreciate it! - Sarah