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Showing results for tags 'hide glue'.
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"Wood" (pun intended ) it be handy to have brief "glue facts" all in one place? After almost 20 years of reading opinions about glue use with regards to violin making, it seems that confusion and misinformation hasn't really abated. ***This is very rough info. I'll edit/reorganize as I have time.*** Feel free to post info, experiences and opinions! For more detailed information on any of the following please consult Wikipedia. 1. Wood glue: catch-all term used for a myriad of glues used to hold wood together. Pros: Glues wood. Cons: Catch-all term. Can be confusing as to chemical make-up. 2. Hide glue: Made from animal collagen found in animal hides. Comes in different strengths; examples: 251 g (8.9 oz) is normally used for instrument building, 192 g (6.8 oz) is most commonly used for woodworking and the lower strength 135 g (4.8 oz) can also be used for general woodworking. Pros: Non-toxic if ingested (similar to gelatin). Does not creep. Can be "unglued" relatively easily. Cystals, if kept dry, have an indefinite shelf life. Cons: Crystals need to be mixed with water and heated - requires constant supervision. May smell bad. There are also different formulations available and not all are equal. Example: Liquid hide glue contains urea. 3. White glue or polyvinyl acetate (PVA)[hobby/craft glue]: Originally made from milk proteins AKA casein. Example: Elmer's Glue All. Also safe (if clean) and was used in classrooms. If yellow: called Carpenter's glue. Pros: Easy to use. Non-acidic. Used in bookbinding and as a wallpaper adhesive. Cons: Subject to degradation by various microorganisms. Will creep. Does not stick well to itself (when regluing). 4. Fish glue: A hide glue made from fish collagen, keratin or elastin. Different types of glue are formulated from different fish species/fish parts. Mostly used in various art endeavours. Pros: Safe. Cons: Weaker than regular hide glue. 5. Rice glue: A plant glue made from rice. Pros: Safe. Transparent when dry. Non-acidic. Reversible. Cons: A weak glue. 5. Muscilage: Made from plants. Edible. Historically used on envelopes, the back of stamps and for classroom use. Largely discontinued in favour of newer formulations. Pros: Safe and edible. Cons: Weak adhesive prone to drying out. Best for temporary use. 6. Cyanoacrylate (CA): A synthetic, or "plastic" product. Different formulations exist, such as thin and watery, a thicker gel or foam. Pros: Very strong. Easy to use. Cons: Not reversible. Can glue living skin. 7. Epoxy: A group of basic components, or cured end products, of epoxy resins. Epoxy resins (AKA polyepoxides) are a class of reactive prepolymers and polymers which contain epoxide groups. Pros: Very strong, comparatively chemically inert when cured, won't melt or dissolve in heat and humidity. Cons: Toxic when uncured, two-element, requires preparation, irreversible. 8. Polyurethane glue: Similar to cyanoacrylate. Multipurpose. Waterproof. Will bond different materials together such as metal to wood. Pros: While uncommon in violin making, may be used when installing certain geared pegs. Cons: May bond poorly. Short shelf life (~1 year). Toxic: contains carcinogens.
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I am currently making my first violin I have completed the garland and I am currently working on the plates. I prepared the joint for the plates using a very long (about 90cm) wooden jointer plane which was carefully flattened, before using it on jointing the plates. The joints came out very straight and I could see no light through them whatsoever. And I believe me I really tried to see if any light was visible at all by holding them on top of a very bright led panel. I was going to use a rub joint without any clamps, mainly because the clamps I own are cheap/flexible and dont apply the pressure perpendicularly to the joint but rather at an angle, plus I don't really think there is a need for them when using hot hide glue. So long story short I was going to do the back first for the following reason. Due to lack of experience I was expecting to get a gap in the first try, so I would rather if it would be on the back instead of the top which is under a lot more stress. I was right to do so the center joint for the top has zero gap but the back is a different story The back has a gap at the end of the front face and another gap at the opposite end of the other face. These gaps dont go all the way through to the other side. I have a theory as to why this happened. As i did the rub joint for the back i slightly twisted the one side of the plate after the glue had started to "bite". So when i twisted it back into place (so that both the pieced of the back rest on the same "plane") the glue had already gelled and some part of it was pushed out of the joint. But I could be wrong as I have no experience at all so hence the post Is there anyway to close the gap? should I even worry about it? I cant do the join again because I have removed quite a bit of wood. If I remove any more wood from the side of the back to do the joint again, due to the tapered shape of the wood there will be no material left for proper arching height. Thanks in advance for your help Pictures are worth a thousand words, so here are some.
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Hello Fellow Members, First, I hope that everyone is safe and staying home as much as possible in these difficult times. I am relatively new to violin making. I have heard that you are able to adjust the thickness or consistency of hide glue. And that you are able to extend the working time of hide glue with the addition of urea. For gluing the back and top plates unto the ribs how many grams of hide glue is recommended? And how many grams of urea? As for using urea I have heard up to 10% but I just wanted to check with more experienced luthiers before I go any further. Thank, in advance, for any of your thoughts. Stay safe. Best, nbar
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I saw this video from StewMac about kitchen products used in a guitar repair shop. One of the suggestions was to use meat tenderizer, which is a protein dissolver, to soften glue joints. Hide glue is protein, after all. Someone here might find that idea useful. http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Trade_Secrets/Guitar_repair_using_kitchen_chemicals.html?lac_guid=2eb8e4e3-e493-e711-80da-ecb1d775572a&utm_campaign=ts0293&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=ts0293_C_20170907
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l was gluing ribs to blocks and encountered a problem with glue slippage. The dry clamping run was perfect but after application of glue the rib slipped as the clamp was tightened and ended up in a less than ideal position. Has anyone got any clever tricks to stop this happening? Same goes for fingerboards.
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Does anyone have a recommendation for what strength hide glue to use for gluing down a top plate? I've been using a 315 hide glue at about a 25% mass ratio. But, the working time is only about 60 seconds before the glue begins to set, which seems like not a lot of time to glue and set the top. Is that a normal set time, or am I doing something wrong? I'm using a glue pot and maintaining a nice 140 degree temp. I'm repairing an old family violin, and before I put the top plate on, I thought I should try to get some pointers.
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Why does glue fail? I have a violin with an open seam on my bench. Chin rest area--pretty common. Only I had the top off this one, so it’s MY glue that failed. Now I’m worried. We’ve just gone through the seasonal change, so houses are warm and very dry. Could it be just that?
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