Oded Kishony

Do you know for a fact that this method cannot result in a fine sounding violin, after all there are many aspects of violin acoustics that are counterintuitive. All violin making is at least semi magical. Even science is semi magical (see physics of consciousness)

A frequently overlooked fact of violin making by proponents of plate tuning is that a significant portion ( to ~1000hz) of the radiated sound of a violin is the result of whole body corpus motion which not only includes the plate and how they relate to each other and the whole body but also can involve the ribs. Individual plate tuning is like trying to make a car go faster by adjusting the hubcaps.

Ahem…….you could do a final scraping on an assembled strung up instrument, then you could immediately listen for tonal changes! Just say’n.

You’re obviously ‘scratching’ the wrong part of your anatomy!

I once was visiting a colleague when he decided to fit a sound post in a cello. He very confidently announced “watch this, I’ll be done in 15 minutes” He started wrestling with the cello and the sound post, fifteen minutes came and went and now little beads of flop sweat appeared on his forehead. Finally after more than a half hour had passed, he turned to me, red faced and demanded I leave the room. He could almost always perfectly fit a sound post in 15 minutes, unless I was observing. Probably some sort of quantum effect.

Do a search for how linoleum is made. The two principle ingredients for making linoleum cement are rosin and linseed oil. After you’ve read about that recall that Cremona was/is a dairy region and how ubiquitous the butter churn must have been. ;-)

We’re all trying to disentangle the mysteries of violin acoustics which are inherently very complex and often counterintuitive. No need to mock someone who is sincerely making an attempt. That said, the demonstration would be more persuasive if the plate was at least graduated. A ‘fact’ that’s often overlooked by plate tuning advocates is that there is strong evidence that the Cremonese makers (strad, del gesu et al) finished the plates after assembling the corpus and inserting the purfling. This is evidenced by the fact that often the purfling bisects the locating pins. (see Roger Hargrave del gesu) I’v often wondered what acoustical model the ancients had in their minds. My experience with contemporary makers who have not had any exposure to scientific violin acoustics is that their imagined theory never coincides with the science. And even with exposure prejudices inevitably creep in. The one aspect of practical acoustics that I think is critical, is to be able to directly connect cause and effect. If I do “A” to a violin I can reasonably expect “B”. That’s what I search for.

Here’s some moldy curdled milk, you try it first and if you don’t die I’ll give it a shot.

The main obstacles that I see with violin ‘acoustical’ work: the difficulty in establishing causality. Because violins are so responsive and delicate (the good ones anyway) any changes in the bridge position post tension or lag in time between changes pretty much nullifies the ‘cause and effect’ impressions. IMHO the academic approach to studying violins just hasn’t proven to be appropriate as can be witnessed by the dearth of practical results or even novel acoustic techniques resulting from this work. Violin sound needs to be approached holistically, understanding that the bow/string/player generates many multiple modes simultaneously and that they change during each bow stroke. It’s what makes the violin so enthralling. I also believe that not enough attention has been given to psychoacoustic effects, both objective and subjective. Oded

First thing I would check are all the seams. If the crack is still closed then it’s very unlikely it’s the cause of the wolf.

I find that identifying the colors and ground of the old masters much more problematic than the actual varnish. oded

Transparency in pigments is tricky. You can think of pigment colors as musical chords comprised of multiple notes, when in harmony are transparent and when discordant opaque. This is just a useful metaphor. If you smear out a pigment you can see the variety of colors. As you mix different pigments the likelihood of achieving a harmonious chord diminishes and the result is more likely to be opaque. The best way to determine the transparency of a pigment is to draw a dark black line on a card and paint your color or combination of colors over the line, it is then apparent how transparent it is. Dye colors are inherently transparent even when mixed. The painting technique you are using is called ‘glazing’ in the art world. An excellent, though possibly outdated book on color theory is “Blue end yellow don’t make green”. Oded

Yes!!! I agree, you can’t change a poorly made violin into a good one, certainly not with simple external changes. oded

Well, Don and I have done this dance quit a few times now. Ultimately the only way for you to know is to try it yourself. I have found it quite useful and there are a number of professional makers who utilize some version of fine tuning the instrument in the white. A few caveats: the thicker/heavier the instrument the less effect changes to the arching/graduations. When you scrape from the outside you are also making a subtle change in arching. This is very intuitive. thinking about individual frequencies/modes is not very useful because every spot on the violin affects many multiple modes/frequencies. much has been made about the question of what happens after you varnish. Certainly the varnish changes the sound but you should know (or find out) what acoustical effect your varnish has. Also keep in mind that the same is true for whatever system you use, the varnish will always change the sound somewhat. But in my experience if a fiddle sounds good in the white, it will sound good after it's varnished. randomly scraping the surface is mostly futile. You need to be able to predict what changes will occur from any given spot. I use a couple of variations based on the simple principle of reciprocity ie vibrations going from the string to the corpus (body) equal vibrations going from the corpus to the string. This means that if you scratch or tap the white (unvarnished) instrument with your finger nail you will hear different strings and harmonics start to ring out (on a tuned instrument) It is my belief (religion) that the great makers of Cremona utilized some form of this technique. It has been noted that they finished the instrument from the outside (see Roger Hargrave see below page 3) you can also use a spectrum analyzer to observe this, set the analyzer to 'continuous' with 'peak hold' and you can watch as different frequencies increase in amplitude (get louder) as you change locations. Oded Kishony 1477066518_Chap_06_Labels_PRN1.pdf

The changes in the sound were unmistakable and the nature of the changes generally agreed upon. One reason these strips had an effect is because the violin is quite thin. The notes, as I recall, were brief and noted the most obvious and agreed upon changes. All the participants were very experienced violinmakers. It’s much easier to be objective if you don’t have any stake in the outcome.