Home
Page
Dealers
Makers
Message
Boards
Price
History
Stolen
Library
Photo
Gallery
Info
Jump to content
Maestronet Forums

cellopera

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    182

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by cellopera

  2. How about this one? (Cello ID)

    in The Auction Scroll

  4. Any opinions on this one?

    in The Auction Scroll

  6. Jargar Strings

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    10 hours ago, David Burgess said:

    Is that now a Thomastic product?

    Jargar was a cool product for many decades, if one was willing to put up with the inconsistencies from what was basically cottage-based production.

    They are now a branch of Thomastik, and produce the new Evoke Strings in Vienna. The rest of the line is still manufactured in Denmark.

  12. Effects of “playing in”.

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    1 hour ago, JavierPortero said:

    In my estimation it's all mental, it's just the player getting used to the given instrument. Depending our capabilities and faults an instrument is easier or more difficult to play since every instrument behave different to different player. 

    Being said that I love to believe that my instruments sound better as time passes by... but I know they sounded better when fresh from the maker's hand.

    Not true. There are some obvious objective ways to analyze some of the qualities of an instrument. Five different professionals could agree in a blind test if an instrument is responsive (easier to play) or unresponsive, regardless of their style of playing. That can be measured. Another one might be balance, e.g. how smooth the transition is from one string to another, or even character of sound (dark sound, brilliant sound).

  14. ? Viennese cello at Ingles & Hayday

    in The Auction Scroll

  15. Cello ID

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    1 hour ago, jacobsaunders said:

    I realise that I’m being boring, but I find it hard not to presume it comes from Markneukirchen

    You’re not being boring at all. I had similar thoughts. Thanks!

  20. Should I buy this cello?

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Wood Butcher said:

    It's clear you own some wonderful instruments, which are, overall, in excellent condition.

    And this highlights why I asked, because my feeling is that it is easier to tell others to buy things, which you would never consider purchasing yourself.

    But to go back to the OP question, any instrument which is a potential money pit, or simply may prove to be unreliable/temperamental on a regular basis, should be checked out by a qualified luthier. It is then clear what one may be letting themselves in for, and the decision becomes much easier to make.
    This is a point others made on previous pages, and is the only sensible course of action. Particularly as none of us have seen the cello.

    Nice for you to assume that these are the only instruments that I own—false. I also have a no-name 19th century Cello made in Mirecourt (very temperamental), which is full of cracks that were repaired over the years. This one also sings like an angel!

  22. Should I buy this cello?

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Jeffrey Holmes said:

     

     

    I found this discussion interesting, but a bit frustrating.

    The three quotes above describe the quandary and hint at solutions.

    If the OP really likes the way the 'cello plays I would simply suggest he visit a very good and reliable third party restorer and pay them to examine the cello, note possible future problems, issues to be addressed now or in the near future, general stability,  and estimated (present) costs to make corrections for these issues.  That should give the buyer a general idea of how much of a money pit they would be acquiring... and how long it might be stuck on a bench.

    Knowing these factors, I'd imagine they would be able to determine if the acquisition makes sense to them.. and kmowing those costs will give them a rather good idea of the budget they actually are committing to (and allow them to compare other instruments within that budget should they wish).

    Concerning the tonal debate: I've been involved with repair, restoration buying selling for over 40 years. Never have I had a musician negotiate the price of an instrument by saying "I'll pay this much, because I don't quite love the sound".  Collectible instruments are a different animal, but not THAT different. The may be sold based on example, but everything must work reasonably well for the check to be written.

    Carry on.

    Well put!

  23. Should I buy this cello?

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    7 hours ago, Rue said:

    Hmm. Just a question about objectivity/subjectivity.  I think we can all agree (more or less) what a Formula 1 engine sounds like, but (and here's the issue) what does an 'angel singing in heaven' sound like?

    1. Do angels actually sing?  Proof?

    2. What's their vocal range like? Mostly sopranos?  But your cello isn't soprano. Tenors?

    3. Where exactly is heaven?

    4. What are the acoustics like in heaven?  Are acoustics also dependent on climatic factors in heaven?  Damp? Dry? Windy? Reverb?

    5. Do angels only sing like cracked and repaired cellos?

    ...inquiring minds...^_^

    1. yes and no proof needed

    2. the cello has a range of 5 octaves, so basically every range. Love the sarcasm btw

    3. in my case, at home or on stage while playing

    4. irrelevant 

    5. only like cracked and subsequently repaired cellos

  24. Should I buy this cello?

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    8 hours ago, GeorgeH said:

    The price of an instrument is based on the following objective criteria:

    - Maker or workshop
    - Condition
    - Appearance
    - Model
    - Size and specifications
    - Geographic origin
    - Age
    - Provenance

    That's it.

    Tone is not part of the price calculation, and the price is determined by the seller before the musician ever tries the instrument. So when a musician tries an instrument, he/she already knows what the price is, and the criteria I listed above are already built into the price. So tone and playability (which are subjective) are what the player considers in making a buying decision because they already know the objective criteria are reflected in the price.

    The pricing decision by the seller is separate from the buying decision of potential buyers.

     

    I agree, but that is besides the point. Of course one has a budget in mind as a buyer, but the sale is based in a big part by the tone it produces. 

  25. Should I buy this cello?

    in The Pegbox

    Posted

    2 hours ago, martin swan said:

    I think the important thing to know here is what’s your sample size.

    Any given musician has only ever bought one two or three instruments and has a few friends who offer more or less plausible anecdotes about their purchases. So their understanding of the motivations of other buyers is very limited by circumstance.

    Conversely, seasoned dealers may have sold many hundreds of instruments, and for each successful sale they have been able to observe the behaviour and thinking of 10 clients who didn’t buy.

    So they are basing their opinions on direct exposure to thousands of clients.

    Based on your comments, I can only assume that your clientele also involves other dealers and collectors beside musicians. Your regular professional musician that might be interested in purchasing a high value instrument, will immediately take it and test it against other valuable instruments and in different acoustics/settings. That’s where the magic happens and the truth reveals itself—on the stage.

    Now, based on your vast experience as a dealer, could you please answer this question: What is the percentage of professional musicians that might base their purchase on the condition of the instrument, and how many on the acoustic qualities of said instrument? Before giving an answer that combines the two, let me follow up with another question: Which of the two elements is in your opinion more important in the eyes/ears of the musician?

×
×
  • Create New...