Theghostis
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Posts posted by Theghostis
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@MANFIOthank you for the details on how you set up your violas. This is helpful.
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I know after length has been discussed here a lot but I’ve only seen a few discussions specific to viola after length, and they stated that a longer after length often works on violas. My question is how much longer?
I had a conversation with a luthier recently about adjusting the setup on my recently acquired viola and he noted that the after length is very long. He recommended a 13.5cm tailpiece and it currently has a 12.5cm tailpiece.
Measurements are 37.2cm vibrating string length and 7.8cm after length.
I think the viola sounds pretty good but it hasn’t been played in a long time so do believe it could benefit from a setup and the string height needs to be lowered by 1mm according to 2 luthiers (I agree). I don’t want a longer tailpiece and lower bridge to dampen the lively sound of the instrument too much.
I am comfortable doing some experiments with tailpieces and possibly using an adjustable foot bridge to experiment with bridge height, but I plan on taking the instrument to a luthier for a real adjustment at some point (and maybe a lower bridge if I don’t dislike the sound).
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I just acquired a Henri Vallon viola and am very interested to hear if anyone here has any other information on this maker.
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Did you end up purchasing this? I saw it listed as well.
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I have a Jacques Leclerc. The varnish is rather shiny and is faux antiqued in an ugly style. The other photos I’ve found online of Jacques Leclercs look exactly like mine. The varnish on the front of yours looks different. Here’s an example of one that looks pretty much exactly like the one I have. Of course the model may have changed over the years it was made so they might not all look alike.
In the US, based on the research I’ve done, these instruments sell for around $$4-5k, maybe a little less depending on location.
Have you tried the instrument you are asking about? How does it sound? -
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This is a link to the JB viola that's for sale: https://www.violinviolacello.com/PageOfJennyBaillyViola.htmFor some reason I like the look of this viola. I don't know a lot about violins and violas, but visually this one appeals to me.
I also enjoyed reading about the violin in the OP and the repair results.
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I’ve never purchased an instrument from an auction like tarisio but these two instruments also looked interesting to me as a player who wants a smaller instrument. There’s also a violin by the same maker in the auction.
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On 10/17/2023 at 10:37 PM, DonGiovanni said:
interested to know what your teacher thinks, as that person is the best person now to understand what violin is good for your current stage, and from your side what you need to make sure of is that your teacher is not getting any percentage from the violin sale, so you can get an actual honest opinion.
Out of the two trial violins I brought to a lesson which were pretty different in price, my teacher said both had something that my current violin does not, but to keep looking. There was also some suggestion that the qualities I am likely looking for are mostly found outside of the price range I've been looking in. My teacher does not think that my current violin is holding me back but agrees with me about some of the deficiencies I find in my current violin. I don't get a strong sense that my teacher has a lot of experience with violin pricing specifically. I don't know if my teacher would get a percentage of the sale but given no particular attachment to a specific shop, I think this is not too likely.
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4 hours ago, Guido said:
Chances are they are not out to get you, and they'll know their market.
I don’t actually think they are. It’s a reputable shop. But the local market may or may not be making prices higher (maybe a lot?) than elsewhere.
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51 minutes ago, Christopher Jacoby said:
Granted, I'm on the East Coast, but those prices are low for the current market. No one is trying to get over on you. A set of Dominants costs 85 DOLLARS now. Heberlein, Meinel, Roth are going for 12-16k regularly the last year.
Thank you for your insight.
I do trust that the shop I reference is reputable. It’s that I am concerned that the local market may be priced a lot higher than everywhere else. It sounds like it’s likely within range of US prices.
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1 hour ago, Violadamore said:
There's no way that a violin can be overpriced, because the industry has no standards to go by.
More seriously, shop for a violin and bow that suit you (rather than by price and provenance), but first you have to try a lot of them, to know what suits you. Check these videos out, https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/359087-the-correct-way-to-buy-an-instrumentbow-imho/#comment-1011499
I’ve watched the violin shopping video. While it was highly entertaining I’m not sure that it gave me much more knowledge of the actual process of selecting an instrument.
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1 hour ago, nathan slobodkin said:
Where are you/
US West Coast. I probably need to be more specific than this, but it’s a start.
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I've been trying violins at my local shops, and the prices seem higher than I expected in some cases. The prices on German trade violins from the 20th century have particularly surprised me. I unfortunately did not get specific dates for some of the instruments I tried, which I know makes a difference in price. Do these prices sound normal, understanding that I didn't write down the years for most instruments and prices will range depending on the year?
EUGEN MEINEL for $12,500.
Heinrich Th Heberlein for $10K
Jurgen Klier for $6,250 (I think this was a 1990s or late 1980s model)
KA Gutter 1921 for $11,500
From a different shop:
Gustave August Ficker for $8,500 - mid 1950s model
In my local area, I have the help of a professional (my violin teacher) to guide my violin search and eventual purchase, but I'm starting to wonder if I should explore shopping outside of my area. I am also considering lesser known contemporary makers but I haven't found anything contemporary that I am particularly drawn to yet. Most of what the shops show me are German or French workshop violins.
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On the subject of Shar violins, they have a clearance section with trade in instruments and sometimes they offer additional coupons. I've only tried their Carlo Lamberti line which is a bit more expensive than the Franz Hoffman, but it seemed like a decent beginner instrument.
@ChickenBeeMan Taking a look at the violin you inherited pictured above, it looks like it had a large top crack repaired in a bit of an amateur way and the pegbox looks a bit chewed at one of the peg holes. As someone who played a violin with very bad pegs that I could not learn to tune as a youth, I would highly urge you to make sure that the violin is in full working order before your child plays this instrument.
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I've done this before. I just moved over the A, D, and G and got a short scale viola C. I probably had dominants on my violin at the time and I think I tried a Zyex C. Helicore C might work well for a violin strung as a viola (they make a short scale viola and a violin C).
My experience was that my instrument sounded just fine as a viola (and not really worse than some 14" violas I've tried).
If you want to keep the violin strung as a viola, you might want to make sure the bridge and nut have the right grooves for viola strings and have a soundpost adjustment. I think some violins make better violas than others.
Regarding viola size, I have a 15.5" viola that I have been avoiding playing because I often get hand pains when I play it for the duration for example of an orchestra or chamber music rehearsal. While it's very true that small people can play larger violas, not all people are equally flexible and sometimes it makes more sense to play a smaller instrument. Also, I find that having my arm very extended makes playing in first position on the C string, especially with vibrato, rather difficult.
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I’m considering making my first real bow upgrade since returning to playing as an adult. As I’ve never done any serious bow shopping, I’m interested in getting some tips on things to look for and to look out for.
I have a budget that’s going to primarily get me a Brazilian or German workshop bow. It could get me a previously repaired bow of a more reputable make, but is this like getting a violin with a repaired soundpost crack? Is it reasonable to consider a repaired bow?
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Thanks for all the advice. I’ll try to take the instrument to a luthier in a couple of weeks and see if they can make a bridge that compensates for the issue reasonably well.
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Another question that I have is, how big of an issue is an off center neck and what amount of off centered ness becomes a problem? How do I tell if the issue is the neck or the fingerboard? Can these issues be compensated for and how?
I can’t get to a shop for a couple weeks to have the instrument checked out, but I’m sure they can answer these questions when I do.
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@David Burgessthank you for your response. I have read the article on the Triangle Strings website where they outline a process for determining the center line for the purposes of bridge placement. I might try something similar.
I do think that something seems off about the neck and/or fingerboard on this instrument.
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@Strad O Various Jr.I did what you suggested and tried to get some photos of the results.
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@Strad O Various Jr. I haven’t figured out a good way to measure it, but it looks like the fingerboard is .5 cm closer to the bass side of the instrument than it is to the treble side. But the weird bridge could also be throwing off my perception.
Edit: If I place the edge of a piece of paper alongside the fingerboard, the bridge seems centered with the fingerboard, but it’s obviously off center on the body.
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Since posting the other day I have shortened the tailgut and moved the soundpost. The soundpost is still definitely not it the right place but it is now closer to the bridge rather than about 1cm away. The e string has an overly ringing, piercing tone although the two lower strings sound pleasant.
I’ve also confirmed that the fingerboard is definitely off center which is disappointing. It looks like the neck is set off kilter.
@FiddleDoug according to Pegheds Facebook page, they make a replacement for Caspari pegs. They still require removing the whole peg and bushing assembly.
@geoff1954 The fingerboard is off center. Given this issue, I don’t really think it’s worth a professional setup and it’s probably worth attempting to return it where I bought it. I did manage to move the soundpost closer to the bridge but I’m pretty sure it’s still not in the right spot based on the sound.
@Strad O Various Jr. I’m pretty sure a setup will cost more than a couple hundred dollars where I live and given the off center fingerboard, it’s probably not worth it. The instrument doesn’t sound terrible but my bow keeps hitting the treble c bout which is likely because off the off centered-ness.
@GeorgeH the Caspari pegs are kind of tight but I don’t think they are slipping . The fingerboard is definitely off center which is really disappointing so I’m not sure how much good a professional setup will do. The serial number inside the instrument looks stamped rather than branded. It’s not on a paper label. There is also a brand on the base of the neck that I can see looking through the end pin hole.
@deansand @Dave Slight I agree a setup would be in order if the violin is worth it at all given the off center fingerboard. That’s a good idea to get a bridge made and work to copy it to try and learn more about fitting a bridge.
Thanks everyone for your responses.
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I purchased a 1973 EH Roth violin, 1700 strad model, that I suppose I'd say has a pretty poor setup, and maybe some other issues. I'm in the process of deciding if I should DIY the setup or take it into a shop for at least a student level bridge and soundpost or soundpost adjustment. If I did much fiddling at the moment, this might be a good instrument for that, but it's not going to replace my main violin.
For context, I have minimal setup experience. I have done two setups on violins that I got in the white, and the setups weren't great.
The soundpost in the Roth is approximately 1cm away from the bridge foot, possibly a little further. I also have noticed that the top in the area around the soundpost and treble bridge foot seems lower and flatter than the same area on the bass side, like the arching has collapsed on one side. This could be related to the soundpost being so far from the bridge. Should I be concerned that the top will collapse more in this area and loosen the strings until I can either move or have the soundpost moved for me? Could something else be causing this? Should I have any other concerns around this fact?
The bridge is an adjustable foot bridge and it appears to have multiple issues. It has very deep string grooves, especially on the e. On the treble side, the "kidney wing?" has sort of collapsed so there is very little space, but on the bass side, it looks normal. What might cause this? The bridge is also not centered on the body of the instrument and the strings are not centered on the fingerboard, but the strings are further toward the treble side while the bridge is further toward the bass side. The string spacing on the bridge also looks really off. I did install a Wittner tailpiece due to the horrible Caspari pegs, but I don't think I moved the bridge more to the bass side when I did this. It does look like I need to shorten the tailgut.
On the subject of the Caspari pegs, does anyone have experience replacing them with either oversize perfection, Wittner, or the Caspari replacement PegHeds? From the research I have done, it looks really challenging to remove the Caspari bushings. The PegHeds sound like the best replacement solution if I can manage to get them without shipping my violin to PegHeds for installation, but then I have to find someone to install them/remove the Caspari bushings because I don't think I have the skill or equipment to do this without damaging the peg box. Given my issues with the bridge and soundpost, I think the Caspari pegs might be low on my list of concerns.
I tried to capture some photos showing the bridge and soundpost placement. I appreciate any advice on setup, and whether it's worth it and I should pursue returning the instrument to the seller.
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@FromBassToViolaI've enjoyed reading this thread. That's good to hear that you have been able to resolve some of the issues you were having with the 4th finger. As someone with what others have noted are child-size hands, my modestly sized viola is quite a challenge (approx. 36.7 cm string length) to play as an amateur violinist and newly amateur violist.
I also have the Karen Tuttle book, and while it's really interesting to read, I am finding it challenging to decide which of the advice in the book to incorporate into my practice. There is just so much content.
Help please to shed light on this viola. Bought for 60usd.
in The Pegbox
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Congratulations on your viola. I bet it will play even better with a setup and adjustment. You might ask the luthier for string recommendations when you take it for a setup. I’ve personally liked both Warchal Amber and Brilliant strings. I’ve been curious to try Dominant Pro as I hear they are easy to play and they are a little less expensive than rondo, PI, Evah, etc. I had bad luck with vision solo on my Jay Haide viola but I know some people like these strings. If the Larsen A looks expensive to you, try Jargar or the warchal Amber A.