Guido

There was a recent thread with ViolinMum discussing the purchase process of an Ender violin. A lovely read with a happy ending. It appears that good trade violins (not necessarily the exceedingly rare masterpieces) can reach $5,000 retail and at times even a little more here and there. The vast majority would be under $2,000 retail though. In a private sale I'd aim for about half of what I'd think the violin would retail in a shop setting. What you are selling here is not the instrument; it is the sound of the instrument. You'll get near nothing for the instrument (which will happen on ebay). You HAVE TO get a buyer playing it, if it performs as you say. Local classifieds work for me. In your situation though I'd definately go back to the $4,000 guy on comission. Tell him he can lower the price to $3,000 if he has to for an interested buyer. What a bargain :-) Besides, if it stacks up in sound quality with the other instruments in the pirce range that he offers, a player (not a collector/ investor) will buy it. I'd think he'd only take it on commission if he thinks he can sell it, so I'd give it ago.

There was a thread on modular rays in wood a few weeks ago. That'll be helpful if you can find it. Not sure if SG and grain are something that people consider...?

I'm not capable of playing the typical wolf tones up high on the g-string in any meaningful context, so I have little experince in this department. This one here makes what I think is a wolf tone at 440Hz on all three strings - the open A being the worst (I suspect an open string might be more inclined that way). As I added BluTack to the bridge it gradually reduced - its not an on-or-off situation. Even now with the thick bridge, it is tamed but not completely gone. I'll take some pictures and take more measurements later.

Well, first of all. This was done on a rather poor instrument that weighs 485g w/o chin rest and the fingerboard isn't even ebony. The sound was nasal and mute. That was with a bridge that was 4.3mm at the feet and well fitted by a luthier. The bridge that improved sound quality and power now is 5.1mm at the feet (not thinning the blank I used at the feet and the belly area). Bridge height and ankle placement are the same or at least very very close. Possibly, a bridge thickness somewhere in between might be even better - my main driver here was experimenting with the wolf tone at 440Hz. I just found it curious that a thicker bridge made an instrument louder, where the opposite usually seems to be the case. So I thought maybe a 'stronger' bridge may be better suited to heavy instruments with rather thick plates. I have another instrument that may be a candidate for this and will try this relationship (w/o going to these extremes).

Thanks everybody. I suppose this is all I can hope to know about this violin. Happy. The upper back has repaired worm damage. It doesn't look quite as bad in real life as in the picture. Also, there is no damage to the inside at all. The worm or whatever it was has apparently stayed close to the surface. Maybe just a question on value. I intend to offer this one for sale and would put it slightly above the average Markie. The sound is a notch better than many of my Markies. It'll probably depend very much on the particular instrument but would one generally price Mirecourt trade a notch above Vogtland trade? Also, would the repaired worm damage lead to much of a discount (assuming it is well repaired and sound)?

I had a strange experience recently where a thicker bridge made an instrument noticeably louder. This violin had a nasal sound and a wolf tone at 440Hz (thank you very much). I was battling the wolf with BluTack and tamed it with a chunk of BluTack right on the belly of the bridge. So I took a rather thick bridge blank and only tapered the sides and the top (so it wouldn't look as bad) but left the centre and the lower part of the bridge including the feet as thick they were. That has tamed the wolf, but also made the violin sound much louder and less nasal. Win-win-win. Unfortunately, it's a little ugly and it's just not what we do, right? I am under the impression that the plates of this violin are rather thick and that the stronger bridge was more effective for that reason. Maybe 'heavier' instrument generally benefit from stronger bridges, rather than the beautiful and elegant ideals that we tend to strive for. Maybe worth trying with the 1930-1970 steel string proof instruments. I thought I put this out here because there seems to be a perception that a thinner bridge will make an instrument louder. Maybe that only works where the plates of the instrument are reasonably thin to match.

I adore Perlman. The 'editor/ shredder' had me fooled and I thought Perlman may have put this on as a parody of sort (he does pull some silly facial expressions in the shredded version - but maybe they don't look out of place with the real performance). Oh well, I'm so naïve.

Gee, I had now idea he did this. What's the story? It's a little bit like dumb joke that's too long though.

I thought I would be able to tell by now. Cornerblockology and all. I even read the complete plunge thread in it's epic elaborations, not long after joining this forum. Here I am, still half blind.

I've got this violin, which I presume is French. However, if it's not a Markie or Mittenwald I don't even know what to look for. It has a grafted scroll, bushed peg holes and some repaired worm damage in the upper part of the back. Me thinks French mostly because it has two French labels, one of which might actually give a clue to the origin of the violin. Here are the pictures. Any clues and learning opportunities much appreciated.

If you don't need (or want) the shop to just tell you what to do, you might want to have a look at your local classifieds. Where I live the (online) classsifieds are full of (new-ish) chinese violins that where bought in the local shops a few years ago. Half the price. If you worry about selling again in future, you may not want to suffer that cut and buy second hand to start with. Also, for sellin in future, you might want to get something that has a half decent reputaion and is popular like a Scott Cao or so. Else, take your time. Play and compare as many as you can, buy what youy like best in the end and don't worry too much.

Thank you very much! I think I'll have a good read of the whole thesis!

I have been reading through various threads on strings last week end ended up ordering Warchal strings to try. Their "Brilliant" might be for you. Order from them directly for 1/2 price on the first set (trial price).

That's the kind of stuff that I find really annoying, too. Makes me angry just to think about it. However, "they" are most likely completely oblivious to it and wouldn't understand what it is about even if you told them. If there is any blame in the room they would also assign it to you without hesitation.

Close the lid harder - don't forget to take out the soundpost first I have got a couple of wooden ca 1900 cases for 3/4 violins - no way you'd squeeze in a 4/4 violin (outline & length). However, I find a fair bit of variation in what would be your height measure in old full size violins (and other measures for that matter). It does happen, that a particular 4/4 violin doesn't fit into a particular 4/4 case on account of various dimensions. I haven't come across a height issue though. Quite possibly, what was considered a standard neck angle and preferred string height may have also increased over time since your case was built. Can you post photos of your situation? To answer your question, I get about 80mm height for a 3/4 violin, measured as you suggested.

As Conor said, not in itself a sign of quality or lack thereof. However, the odds are not in your favour with literally millions of (cheap) trade fiddles out there coming from the Markneukirchen/ Schonbach area around 1900 +/-30 years. One might even be under the impression that there are more German violins built-on-the-back (no corner blocks necessary; sold w/o any, two lowers inserted, or four inserted) than there are other violins all together. There are many threats on the subject to be found here. Interestingly, I've recently had a conversation with a master violin maker from the area and she still builds on the back as was (and apparently still is) typical for the area.

No label, but it has inspired the "ebony pin" thread and was the very first illustration there.

The scroll flutes do not go all the way into the throat, even though the wide open throat would have made it easy. The back of the pegbox stays wide for a while before it tapers; there seems to be a very small delta. Other observations? Interpretation? And here is the pic of the endpin area; obviously two piece lower ribs, what else? The sound is sweet and slightly on the nasal side. It is reasonably well balanced with the G string a little weaker. A good dynamic range, no idea about projection (never tried). I like it quite a bit, mostly because it sounds different from all my other violins and because its appearance is characterful and unique. However, I have too many violins and was considering to let it go. Hence my double checking on age and origin before I put a price on it.

Hello, Just wondering if anyone has tried the cheap King Lion synthetic core stings from China, which can be had for under $10 a set on ebay? Just curious if they are a budget option worth considering.

Hello, I've got this violin, BOB, no upper corner blocks. Looks like Markneukirchen/ Schonbach to me. And maybe this is the end of ID process already. However, I was wondering if the violin may pre-date the typical trade violin period and may be less of a mass produced one? Or maybe even though it is BOB it is against all odds not from the Vogtland region? Just double checking.

Obviously worth the nice pegs and dominant strings. I like it, too. Quite ...mmm... organic.

My instinct says no. Just looking over the pics casually there is A LOT of work that needs to be done. If you can do it yourself to a reasonable standard that'll be a fun project. If not, I see little hope. Best to show it to your local luthier in the flesh and ask for a quote. The other part of the equation is the value of the fiddle once repaired. I have no idea what a W.F. Adams would go for but it doesn't look special to me.

For me, this is the best statement in the thread! Love it.

On that note: Thanks to Will L for sponsoring the nuclear warhead to the winner. Maybe we need to introduce categories; conventional and non-conventional scroll with sub-categories for craftsmanship, design, and overall. For me, mendicus' example is still the front runner even though the Michigan scroll appears unbeatable in craftsmanship. Dog-eats-pig is my favourite in the non-conventional category based on zero points for design, even though craftsmanship might be ok.