Guido

Has anyone ever seen a button screwed to the screw? I have read about it in John Staggs repair book, but this is the first one I see in real life. And Stagg didn't elaborate on where/ when this variation of button attachment can be found.

I'm aware of this having been done and have seen it before. I don't think that's the case here; but can't be sure.

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I always wondered if there is anything to rehairing the Vuillaume style frogs that I may have missed. I have only ever seen them with hair flat at the bottom of the ferrule like in the attached picture. Just wondering if there was any "thinking" behind the design? I could imagine running the hair up on the sides to the widest point of the ferrule. That way, more pressure when playing would simultaneously give you a wider ribbon of hair on the string - a double whammy on dynamics. Just wondering what Vuillaume was thinking with the design innovation?

Fished a lovely French frog out of my parts box today. Hoping for a school ID or maybe even some candidate names. One feature that stands out for me is that the button is screwed on the screw (rather than the common press fit on a square taper). The underslide has one pin behind the eyelet. The pin is either huge (!) or has a flat head. Seems to have some sharpie pen marks on the underslide, never mind.

The propensity to leave repair labels is highly correlated with the likelihood of the repairer causing more harm than good. The 1737 label seems a good lead; and someone should be able to read it. It’s clear and complete, just a matter of handwriting.

So you intend to make it playable again at some point?

Thanks. Good looking patches seem to run in the family. Talking a cast across the whole chest seems a good idea and is still only about the size of a full violin cast. Thanks. Good looking patches seem to run in the family. Talking a cast across the whole chest seems a good idea and is still only about the size of a full violin cast. Regarding the plaster/ stone, could you share particular product and how thick your cast would be in the centre? And if it's not too much rouble, what would be the weight of your cast? Obviously a particular cast may be a bit bigger or smaller and the arch will vary, but it'll still be useful to estimate the quantity of product to mix up. I have this at hand:

I still think the violin could carry up to a $10-$12 price tag under the right circumstances. But you have to be realistic and take what you can get at the end of the day. For now though, shop around, If you can. E.g. a $1,5k repair and $8k sale on 20% commission would get just shy of $5k in your pocket. In my view that would be good outcome for you if you are willing to spend some time and effort.

I'm just amazed how AI can say all these things about a given violin without having personally inspected it? Surely this is all just made up (or bluntly lied) to achieve a sale. Did they forget the ethics algorithm?

Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I'm soaking it up like a sponge. I guess my paradigm is based on Mittenwald (and related) vs. Saxony, where any violin making outside the local tradition seems almost unconceivable :-)

Thanks, I'll ask my dentist when I'm back home tonight. If she would only get the kids to bed a bit earlier... Regarding the cello in question, it's not mine so I won't post it here. It's from the 1920s and apart from the sound post crack in very good condition. The crack is right on target, and extends about 2 cm in front and maybe 4 cm behind the bridge foot. It's old, black, but fairly closed. Apart form properly cleaning it I don't expect any complications. What's the relevance of the cello or crack for the use of the dental thermo-plastic vs. the partial plaster cast?

I followed the design in the IPCI books, which was also discussed here in some detail a few years ago. See if you can find it before I type it up again :-) With hindsight, the results aren't exactly revolutionary.

Thanks for spelling it out. Clicked for me. I had my head locked in thinking about wrapping the barrier film around the violin, rather than around the plaster. Makes no difference for a full cast, but is obviously the key ingredient for the partial cast. I guess one of these countour gauges is very useful to get the shape of the top onto the lower edges of the dam boards.

After many sound post patches in both violin tops and backs I’m now looking at a cello top. for the violin I made a vacuum box that hooks up to the shop vac and my plaster casting is pretty honed in. never really thought about how to do the same thing for a cello. I assume a local counter form of wood and chalk fitted to the relevant area of the top would be the way to go? Can anyone share tips/ tricks/ experience installing a sound post patch to a cello top?

Thank you @Michael Appleman It's always great to hear and learn things that I don't see every day on this forum. Is there any good reference one could read up on French construction methods? For instance how does the building-on-the-back-with-ribs-in-a-channel compare to the building-on-the-back-with-bocks-glued-on-first both in time and location? And when/ where/ how were these methods replaced? I guess Mirecourt would have moved to an outside mould to speed up production at some point?

Doesn't mean the violin is the same year as the catalogue. The label may have been in use for a decade or three. I would venture a guess your violin is a little younger. And yes, it's for playing. This is a basic student quality instrument made for beating up any siblings making unconsidered remarks on playing progress. They were mass produced, but often play very well. You can try and dress the pegs with soap and chalk. Maybe find instructions online, or ask again.

At the risk of creating a confusing thread here is the Breton. The corner block shape is similarly asymmetric, but maybe a little less pronounced. The lower block is also very small, and the f-holes are undercut in an identical manner. The blocks are spruce, whereas the op is willow.

In a nutshell, I'd be curious about four things: 1. Any more info on the use of this building method in terms of time/place/makers. I think @Michael Appleman mentioned Aldric/ Pique/ Bassot and predecessors plus some Mirecourt and the odd isolated maker (without giving any more names apart from the aforementioned). That was about five years ago. Maybe we have new members or the plot has thickened for someone willing to share info on this "school" or building tradition in France. 2. I have seen these undercut f-holes on one other violin, a Breton (possibly by the man himself); but not at any of the many other Mirecourt violins I have around between 1760 and 1850. So, what's up with these undercut f-holes? Who did that? Does it go hand in hand with this corner block shape or is it some other tradition mixed/ crossed in? 3. Same with the tiny bottom block. Don't know if the top block is original but it is really small, too. Maybe I didn't always pay attention, but this is certainly the smallest lower block I have ever seen. Is there anything to it? Come to think of it, the second smallest block I have ever seen was in above mentioned Breton, but it was of a very different shape closer to a half circle. 4. Any specific ideas who made the op violin are welcome. P.S.: French numbers are just plain crazy. You have to be on your toes if the only way to say "ninety two" is as "four times twenty plus twelve"

P.S. Blocks seem to be willow

On my bench at the moment is an example of previously discussed French cornerblockogoly, originally presented by our head cornerblockologist some years ago. I attach a photo of the lower treble block to illustrate the shape with the much longer end running into the c-bout. It seems a (small-ish) sub-school of French making that may be useful for ID purposes if better understood or traced in linages. The example on my bench is not identified, but maybe someone can help with that? Of note, is also the ridiculously small lower block; and the undercut f-holes in particular in the eyes, giving a crisp impression form the outside.

You get some money on ebay as is, best to start $1 w/o reserve. Should be able to raise $200-$300 towards a good use with the youth symphony.

Check the small print on the crest. Could be Apparut. As for the violin better pictures are needed.

Style and preferences aside. The first bridge looks like they tried very hard; the second bridge looks like they didn’t try hard enough. As they are I’d prefer the first one. If they were mine, I’d prefer the second one and take the knife to it.

The bows are rather basic unfortunately. The one branded Germany is probably worth rehairing, but that’s about it.

I’d think it’s German and will be difficult to match to a name.