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Hempel

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  1. I don't know in what setting Daniel Schmidt gave his lecture, but if someone comes to you and said, "the economic circumstances of the Great Depression prompted some German makers to resort to using French stamps," I'd hope the first question you'd ask that person is "Who were these makers and when did they start infringing?" I don't doubt under the Great Depression times were bad, but that doesn't answer the question which German makers resorted to trademark infringement during this period. Leaving aside Hermann Prell, Buegeleisen (and his suppliers) are the only ones for which we have documentary evidence, thanks to Sartory's lawsuit. Which was why I though it important to examine exactly when Buegeleisen turned into a "Francophile." It's also important to understand the lead times associated with the business cycle. Businesses have to make a prediction on the next years demand and coordinate logistics. When there's a war it makes such predictions difficult to forecast. You have to advertise, print and distribute catalogs, all that jazz. In short, importers have to line up their ducks in a row at least a year in advance, if not longer. Prell died in 1925 so we know Great Depression couldn't have been the reason for whatever he might (or might not) have done. And it would be important to pin down exactly when Prell started the practice, so we aren't subjected to right hand bias (i.e. when he was caught doing it). It's difficult for people now to grasp how frightening to the rest of the world Kaiser Wilhelm II was in his imperialist aims, having arrived late to that game compared to the other great powers. He tried to make up for lost time and had the misfortune of coinciding with the United States when it began its own aggressive expansionist policy. I don't think anyone should under-estimate the extent anti-German sentiment rose in the world by the first decade of the 1900s. I think you should write Daniel Schmidt and pin him down regarding the Great Depression claim.
  2. I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't agree with you aside from there are more than a single reason for trademark infringement. My point was if you think the evidence for anti-German sentiment as the ostensible reason for trademark infringement is tenuous, the proposition that German hyper-inflation or Great Depression as proximate cause for trademark infringement is zero (leaving aside Hermann Prell). Cause the timeline for the hyper-inflation or Great Depression doesn't work out since we have evidence that B&J switched from an English trade name "Crown" to "Gonet et Cie Paris" as far back as 1906, and there was a shortage of skilled labor to make instruments in the Vogtland after the war. One of the reasons I belabor WWI context is to make everyone aware your post-WWI "German" fiddle (in whole or in parts) reparations to France story is bunk. German in quotes because Austria lost WWI along with Germany, and Austria included Schönbach.
  3. Let's just say during the war, when Germany and neutral ports were blockaded by the British, Germans had good reasons to avoid stamping their wares with ANY markings indicating their German origin. Even Knopf sold unmarked bows to Kittel, etc. so I can't really say Buegeleisen putting French or American trade names on their cornets constituted "misrepresentation." That was just standard practice, as opposed to trademark infringement (which was misrepresentation). Bottom line, there is not sufficient evidence to determine who was more motivated to carry out mis-stamping during the war, the German manufacturers or importers like Buegeleisen.
  4. Read what Buegeleisen wrote about carrying on the music instrument business during the war in 1915: Simson's European trip report after the war confirms Buegeleisen's prediction (The Music Trades, 8/25/1923, p.32, column 2)
  5. From the Music Trades Review link I gave earlier on the Pique thread we know Buegeleisen started the "Leon Pique" line of bows in 1915. But Buegeleisen became a "Francophile" long before that, around 1906, with "Gonet et Cie, Paris" (Grazlitz) cornets.
  6. Let me put this as simply as I can. Preuss started the thread with: There is no evidence for this. I've already alluded starting a new line with a new name required resources. Advertising is required, and catalogs need to be printed. This takes time and results are not instantaneous. But most importantly of all, after the war, and during German hyper-inflation, instrument manufacturers in Vogtland faced a shortage of skilled workers. Production capacity was severely limited due to this labor shortage. In short, you've got a timeline issue when you assert the Great Depression or German hyperinflation caused the quick march to French names/trademark infringement. That's one of the reasons I never cited any political propaganda or cartoons to show that the US-German relationship soured around 1902, and that French names for German/Austrian imports started shortly after that.
  7. Considering I've spent time in both the Schönbach and Grazlitz archives I'm well aware they are in Bohemia/Austria. I merely used Bohland & Fuchs as an example of when B&J "turned French," not as an example of why B&J hid "German" origins. You sprout a lot of verbiage but don't cite any evidence: "One peculiarity of the stringed instrument business is that French bows ... are preferred for all other origins and therefore were imitated, faked, misbranded for long and by each and everyone, which had nothing (or not much) to do with anything else." You cite Weichert "Imitation de Tourte" as an example but I made clear that wasn't a case of trademark infringement. I remind you here's what I stated (emphasis mine):
  8. Some of you claim that German bows branded with French names are just business as usual. Let's examine exactly when B&J got bit by the "French bug." https://brasshistory.net/B&J History.pdf In B&J's line of cornets, they start out with "Crown" line around 1903. Three years later, they announce a new line of French cornets and trombones made by "Gonet & Cie, Paris." "Gonet & Cie, Paris" never existed, certainly not as horn manufacturers. The B&J cornets and trombones were made by Bohland & Fuchs, Grazlitz since 1903. Ms. Clara Eve Scheiber's paper provides a blow by blow account how the US-German relationship deteriorated. Anyone who has read her paper would realize by 1902 the relationship had completely soured. B&J got the French bug four years afterwards. Announcing a new line of instruments is not free. You have expend additional resources to advertise. National resentments don't get turned off like light switches. The Chinese and Koreans are still battling the Japanese for them to acknowledge their WWII atrocities. I've already mentioned children of Holocaust survivors.
  9. I suggest you reread the OP Andreas wrote, "German makers...using fake stamps of their French colleagues...." "American Thermos Bottle" case I cited earlier showed German manufacturers and importers knew German branded goods were unpopular with Americans at the time, and tried to make the country of origin as inconspicuous as possible. You can't maneuver around this fact. Slightly later in the thread you state "a low opinion of another country (or another person) doesn't preclude you from wanting their stuff." Here I made the point on availability of choice (TV, computers, phones). If you want to be a participant of the modern world, you don't get to select a TV, computer, or smartphone that's not manufactured in China prior to c. 2016, regardless which brand is on it. Fiddles are completely different from this captive situation both around 1900 and now.
  10. If you got the mRNA vaccine for CoVID, that technology was developed over the span of some 60 years largely by American scientists. The vaccine they put into your arm may have been produced elsewhere, but the science that made such vaccines possible came out of American labs.
  11. The difference is nobody can accuse Weichold of trademark infringement when "Imitation de Tourte" stamp is used. Not exactly an appropriate comparison.
  12. Who can forget those past epic rants on MN warning folks to avoid Chinese fiddles like the plague. "Made with slave labor!" When Trump instituted his "Gina" tariffs all the sudden you saw phones labelled "Made in Vietnam/India." Manufacturers like LG and Motorola. It's not as if consumers previously had a choice to demand phone manufacturers to move their manufacturing out of China. Unlike phones there is no captive country for fiddles. Consumers still can by fiddles made in Germany, Roumania, Hungary, France, China, US, etc. This availability of choice can certainly influence a potential customer from buying a Chinese fiddle.
  13. I know children of Jewish Holocaust survivors that still refuse to buy BMW, Mercedes, Krup, etc. You're also missing the point. These trademark infringements were committed by manufacturers and distributors. They aren't going to wait around to see if their sales plummet to take action to preserve their own interests. You as end customer don't get to vote on their fears or motivations. Much like how the state of Israel accuses anyone who might be sympathetic to Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement as anti-Semites. Funny when someone criticizes Saudi Arabia/Iran etc. nobody accuses them of being Islamophobes.
  14. You're arguing over the proper interpretation of a 1917 cartoon when there's solid evidence of Sheffield cutlery (UK) trademark infringement perpetrated by Germans, giving rise to UK's revised Merchandise Act in 1887 which required the country of origin to be specified. If that's not denial I don't know what is.
  15. My citations contain little political propaganda unless you count contemporaneous newspaper reports and editorials as "propaganda." If you're a businessman, you're certainly going to have to "adjust" the way you do business when you have a big-mouthed leader sprouting off and determining policy like Kaiser Wilhelm did. Another recent leader comes to mind when he disrupted the "Gina" supply chains with his capricious tariff policies. The fact that German manufacturers and importers infringed on French trademarks and had to change their way of doing business is not only supported by empirical evidence but also contemporaneous documentary evidence. Ever wonder why Roth labels had "Germany" in the tiniest print? "American Thermos vs. Grant" is case in point. I stopped by IKEA recently to pick up some rechargeable batteries. (They don't ship batteries.) While there I decided to get some tempered glassware since I'd clumsily broken part of a nice set at home. I was surprised to find the glassware was made in Russia. I don't recall seeing a Russian product on American store shelves prior to that, despite having lived in NYC, where there were several Russian Jewish communities that had emigrated prior to the very end of the Cold War. If the goods get embargoed you as end consumer don't even get the choice of "having (their) stuff in (your) house."
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