miles
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Posts posted by miles
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In addition to yuen's list, those who are not on his list might still be on my list. However, my favorite has been Rabin.
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Thanks a lot for the clarification of Amedeo Simmonazzi. I have an additional question. Since the violin I purchased bears an Italian label (1929), I wonder whether it is a fake. The reason for my suspicion is that it has a 1 PC bird's eye maple back, which looks awfully like contemporary Chinese violins, which were made with Hymalaya bird's eye maple. Do you know whether bird's eye maple was popular in Italian for violin making?
And you are very welcome. I am a beneficiary of your generosity and will be thrilled to get my "pay back time". Please don't hesitate to let me know if I can be of any help.
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>The use of all caps and an exclamation point implies a dismissive, if not contemptous, attitude.
Falstaff, I don't think I needed to answer this post in light of Blue Teal's posts. The all caps and an exclamation is because I had repeated myself time and time and time again like a broken record and I am tired of it. My point all along is mamawelder might be truthful with her posts (I am sure no one would object the benefit of doubt), but it was a long time ago and things might have been changed. Please read her comment to Townsend's:
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quote:
Mr. Ziang Mei was an instrument maker whom I originally studied under. He passed in 2000.
He was not related to Zhang Shu Mei, who may or may not be a living individual, but whose shop instruments are available through Mr. Andrew Wong in Hong Kong.
These shop instruments by the way, are exceptionally good for the price.
New strings and a new bridge and they beat any $1000 violin you find at local shops. (personal opinion).
Yeah, but the workshop cellos suck.
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If you are someone who just jumped into the thread and have no time, no intention and no interest of following the thread, what does "Yeah, but the workshop cellos suck." do to you?
Admittedly, we treasure right to free speech. And now please put Blue Teal's posts against this post (or all mamawelder's posts), what would you feel then?
As stated in the previous posts, I DIDN'T dismiss (or negative verbs of your choice) her experience, but if she's going to make such s claim, it would be beneficial to herself as well to ask people who had recent cello experience with Andrew's shop or state a fair disclaimer knowing that a lot of people's bread and butter might shrink as a result of our "right to free speech". That's all.
p.s. I hope I have corrected all the grammatical errors in this post. Hugh...
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there is no way this violin will end up under 100 dollars. not since this discussion courtesy of randy1's question. if it does, i will give everyone here 100 dollars. i will buy randy1 a real one, hehe.
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Not if you shill. Hey, don't bid up since Randy 1 is not the seller. Let him make the profit!
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males never know all the rules
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Nay. Guys just forget or suffer from ADD like my dad, you know.
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a phrase
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Yeah, I heard: rhythmatic (spelling?) phrases. That sounds like proverbs or idioms in a language (right?).
OK, Sir. I will be patient. I found a book, which is pretty cool: Strictly Strings.
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Jesse,
Now that you bring up the Italian label, I have a question on my recent purchase. It is labeled "Simonazzi Amedeo" (Italian). I did a search and found that there were:
Simonazzi, Amedeo & Simonazzi Amedeo
So my question is: Were there two Italian makers, one was Amedio Simonazzi and the other Simonazzi Amedeo?
The violin looked very Chinese to me: Asian bird's eye maple back. But I cannot tell whether it is Italian.
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> You keep trying to say her experience doesn't have weight because it was three years ago...
Nope. I never said her experience doesn't carry weight. It does. (If you disagree, please point that one out. All I added was that it was three years ago.) You forgot that time does wonders and 3 years is a long time. I would not even take a look a Chinsee violin if it weren't for this site's positive feedback and I am glad I did. As I said before and I am sorry to have to be a broken record: When I saw your posting, I thought it was a recent purchase and I started to worry. Although mine has return policy, you should know how much it would cost to ship a cello!!! If she had added something like this: "I purchased a cello from Andrew 3 years ago and got a lemon. But I don't know whether they have improve.... Buyer be aware." Of course, you guys can write better than me in English. She would give a proper warning as I read it: I had bad experience with him a while back and you check it out if you want to do business with him.
Let me ask you this question: If you are businessman and your business depend upon referrals for some reason, a customer got a bad deal (that you may not have control over or the price was very cheap blah, blah, blah.) when you first started. But then, through your experience, you learned how to do business right and had followed that practice. However, this client made his/her bad experience as recent and applied to the stock of that whole category. You cannot say she was wrong although you learned the lesson and supposedly you have good quality merchandise for sale to "redeem" yourself. Because of her vague or outdated feedback, some potential buyers got scared and would not buy. How would you feel, Guy?
That said, I don't know about the quality of Andrew's Cello or viola for that matter. Again, I repeat: I don't think mamawelder meant to hurt Andrew's business (maybe she does, I don't know. I didn't ask.), but her remark may very likely inadvertently hurt someone's business. Thus, I stated unless we had updated "bad news" from recent buyers of cellos, I think it wouldn't hurt to specify the situation: 3 years ago, none-refundable and transaction outside eBay etc..... These will serve as good warning indicators.
Guy, your points are welcome, but please don't put words in my mouth.
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Hi mamawelder,
Given your experience, I can understand and sympathize with where you are coming from, but (not trying to be a nuances (that's why I like to be a crown) that was THREE years ago!
Have you had any more recent experience even just second-handed experience with Zhang's cellos?
At least Bill Townsend's and my own experience (I am not saying there are no other "pro" and "con" parties, but they have not been made themselves know sufficiently enough) are very recent: Bill's probably about at least 1 year ago and my just less than 2 months. Although mine is about violin, Bill's experience might reasonably include other instruments (i.e. viola and cello etc). Unless you have more recent 'bad news", I am not comfortable to side with you although I love to make friends.
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I also have dobuts in my mind about randy 1's posts:
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(1) all indications are it is authentic
(2) I like to hedge my bets by doing all the research I can and this Violin has me stumped as I could find limited information
-- randy 1
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If you had done research and found limited information on this violin, I don't understand what indications you could gather to support your claim "it is authentic". To me, at least two things could happen:
(1) You are the seller and try to cook up interest. I don't blame you for trying to get as much as you could get for your item. But think on our side, I for one was sincerely trying my best (althoug admittedly most of my posts are just entertaining at best) to answer your question. And you FAILED to answer my "how you determine the authenticity".
(2) You are not the seller as you claimed; you were just trying to get help: If that's really the case, I would say "Join my club": Working on your communication ability. Apparently, you knew exactly what you wanted, but beating the bushes. I will give you the benefit of doubt, as I already did, and offer my apology as well as my welcome.
IMHO, I don't think an apology is really necessary in this case. John only said "I bet....I may be wrong." so as Jay. They didn't make it a matter of "fact", but express and clearly labeled their suspicion as such. What apology do they need to offer? As far as Neil and I, as everyone can see, we were trying to entertain ourselves (and others due to the forum). Neil addressed his amusement directly to me, not Randy 1 and I followed up on the joke. As I already apologized for being funny at randy 1's expense, it should suffice. It is not rumor for the aforementioned reason. Furthermore, randy 1 posted the message and he could easily clarify/dispel the doubts if so he wished (and he did) whether you "buy" his story. No need to apologize for being cautious, but for "bad behaviour" like mine. (Seriously, I would get chewed out if my parents heard me making all the jokes. That's why I fled to the US. They cannot get me. Ha....)
That said, I would say: "Communication is the key here"! Communication, communication and communication with sincererity and honesty.
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From my experience learning foreign languages, I cannot agree more with your comments on violin (or any instrument for that matter) self-teaching.
The basic is really the foundation to the beauty of music (in our case). I bought this CD "Michael Rabin -- The Early Years", which includes Ossy Renardy (quoted verbatim)
Ossy Renardy was one of the most gifted violinists to emerge immediately prior to the Second World War. Apart from the initial violin lessons he received form a neighborhood friend of the family, he was primarilty self-taught. Throughout his dedication and natural talent he made exceptional progress and was able to make his solo debut in Vienna at the age of thirteen. The conductor Victor de Sabata was so taken with the young violinist that he engaged him to perform as a soloist with the Vienna Philharmonic...
That was the very passage, which gave me the booster to self-teach myself violin (along with German). But my experience tells me that if you don't have solid bascis, you won't go too far without struggling and maybe later re-struggliing with a teacher. Right now, I am a bit overwhelmed with one of the "basics" -- note reading... I don't recall when I was able to just read it without putting little "notes' below the scale a night before my music class started at school... Never put in the time or bother to figure out. Now I am paying for it.... I hope my bowing is all right though since I have a strong right hand.
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Neil, you've got company. But I will give you a whole point + star. If it weren't for your "legitimate" answer, we would not get a long enough reply.
Maybe I can redeem myself by saying:
As I answered his questions point by point until I saw "all indications are it is authentic!", I STOPPED right there. So I only fool half of me.
Or should I say I was also trying to get another long enough reply just to make sure that he has been treated fairly? I am bad.
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> What do we know?
(1) ZSM has a workshop.
(2) Quality control is not always consistent.
(3) There is no name mess-up: ZSM has nothing to do with Bill's Master.
(4) ZSM was indeed on the AFL.
(5) Andew Wong was right in two things:
(a) Marketing ZSM when ZSM was listed on AFL
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"de"-Marketing ZSM when ZSM was delisted on AFL(6) miles was right in standing by Andrew's instruments: "These shop instruments by the way, are exceptionally good for the price".
And more... (omission to avoid potential offense).
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met other makers has assured us that none of his connections have heard of ZSM.
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Do you know how many shops there are in China or just Beijin alone, falstaff? How are you gonna "quality control" these connections are "know-it-all"?
No offense, but the fact Glenn "translated" Zheng Quan' as "Cong Chan" [Zheng Quan (pronounced Chong Chan)] makes me nervous....
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http://www.hugocd.com/hugo_en/...view.asp?articleID=19
Since there are no less than about 200 different languages in China, you are sure to find many music instruments that look similar but with many different names. Many opera types too.
Kohu should be spelled Gaohu. I think Guohu is also wrong.
Next time you come to China, expect to be going to the wrong places because different people call the same place by different names (unless you write it in Chinese)!
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violinissimo found this for the Zigeunerweisen thread, but this is exactly the point I was talking about Glenn's pronouncing "Zheng Quan" as "Cong Chan". Nothing wrong, but it will likely be a problem in real life....
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Just reading through today's lesson again:
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Any introductory violin book will tell you this. Nothing to it. After a while everything
is done automatically.
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Oh, goodness, so after a while my violin will "play" me? Or I'll be "electronicalized" -- my name is eMiles.
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Taking violinbeginner's point a step further:
If "shifting alliance with Amati Foundation" is one of the circumstantial evidence for the none-existence of ZSM, how come in Bill Townsend's website, the master name is not changed to Zheng Quan? Isn't it odd that Amati Foundation straightened out their "mess", but the man himself didn't?
http://www.townsendviolins.com/pages/3/index.htm
In addition, the multiple name spelling issue. Do you know how many names I have on my credit report? Some names I don't even know. In Townsend's website, Ziang/Zhang Shu Mei becomes Ziang/Zhang Mei is an easy one. A lot of Americans assume that the 2nd character in our name is actually our middle name (usually Chinese name consists of 3 characters, but 2 or 4 also happens). A few documents of mine also consists the first character and the last character of my full name. So Ziang Mei may very well be Ziang Shu Mei. As I indicated before, as a native speaker of Chinese with two degrees in Chinese on scholarship, I am comfortable to say that in modern Mandarin, there's no such a sound "ziang". Thus, it is very likely that Zhang was mispronouced as Ziang. (Possible sound close to Ziang: Zhang, Zang and Jiang, but none of them is close to Zheng anyway.)
Thus, I totally agree with violinbeginner that Bill Townsend's master is the key (IMHO, Amati Foundation listing has nothing to do with whether ZSM exists at all although AF Listing did make ZSM surface from the bottomless sea.) That said, whether Bill's ZSM is Andrew's ZSM cannot be determined in our case at this point. However, if we cannot get to Bill's ZSM, we will never be able to get to Andrew's ZSM let alone using AM Listing as the circumstantial evidence.
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Anyway, so take a look at the article and tell me what you guys think.
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Or just visit Bill Townsend's website if you have issues with Journalism.
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Good eyes, guys.
Well, John, if your question is true, then I certainly got my answer (that also explains Neil's question, right? )
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> all indications are it is authentic - randy1
May I ask how you determine that only by looking at the photos?
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All four strings (G, D, A, E) have 4 notes, which sometimes overlap (1 = Do, 2 = Re, 3 = Me, Fa = 4, So = 5, La = 6, Che = 7)
G: 5, 6, 7, 1
D: 2, 3, 4, 5
A: 6, 7, 1, 2
E: 3, 4, 5, 6
When we talk about whole/half step, does the note change from one note to another on the string or cross the string? I am a bit confused. :confused:
As alwasy, thank you so much, yuen. It's very kind of you to dissect it.
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Whether you like it or not, the preponderance of (circumstantial evidence): number of ZSM fiddles sold, the mix up of the name, the dropping from Amati F list, the fact that known makers in China seem NOT to know this maker, his dealer (Andrew's) silence on the matter -- all point to the fact that this is a Trade Name used to sell sometimes very fine sometimes not so very fine violins.
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Of course, you are entitled to your opinion and you stated it well, and I am not here to dispel your doubts. By the same token, I am not convined by you guys' arguments either.
All my arguments are supported in the thread. You are welcome to challenge one by one in context/post. By so doing, I will "adjust" my logic as Jay (singingmaple stated).
By the way:
(1) How many violins ZSM has made was also challenged by other poster in addition to mine. So at least I am not the only one who disagree with that approach.
We do not dispute that ZSM has a workshop; we simply are not convinced that ZSM does NOT exist by you guys' reasoning.
(2) You dismissed my reasoning, but there is one post, which agreed with my reasoning. Thus, what I said cannot be simply dismissed as none-sense. Well, maybe none-sense to you and you are entitled to your opinion.
That said, I don't know whether ZSM exists and I don't really care that much. In your own terms, your so-called CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence does absolutely nothing to convince me. And I am open to be convinced if you can make a stronger case.
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You guys are hilarious.
Buying and selling are always a risky business, as GlennPA wisely said, "...sometimes you gain some and sometimes you lose some". So trading online with caution and principle is the best policy (like singingmaple set a $200 cap. Me too. But my cap can be a bit higher depending upon whether how bad I want the item, violin mostly).
That said, yes, it is true you can get a real bargain on auction (the opposite also applied). A friend of mine (also on this board, but his two compuers are "sick' and cannot get online for a while). He was selling a violin on eBay and didn't sell. But later he was able to sell it for $4,500.00. I could have had the chance... Oh, well... But you can also lose money as well, I lost money on junkie violins I bought on eBay years ago and mamawelder also lost money on her cello.
>opions about investment purposes
If you can buy low sell high, it is always good investment. I never sold any of my violins (now I am "begging" the aforementioned friend to borrow my violins ) so I really cannot tell you how/where to sell for better profit.
> all indications are it is authentic
May I ask how you determine that only by looking at the photos?
Best luck!
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Thank you very much, Yuen. I am looking through my old "inventory" (bought in 2000) and see whether I have the Maia Bang book. If not, I will try to use something today.
I was playing a little bit (open string to practice bowing). It's funny when I want double stop, I don't see to get it. But when I don't want it, it actually pops up on its own (bad bowing).
In earlier posting, you mentioned:
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Some are half step, some are whole step.
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Is it like white key and black on a piano? How does one get half or whole step?
Thanks again, Master.
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Aha, now we are on the same page. Thanks a lot for bringing it up:
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"Michael and Glenn might be right in speculating that "ZSM was fictitious". If that's the case, we need to have proof..."
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I didn't mean to prove ZSM doesn't exist, but prove HOW THEY CAME TO THE CONCLUSION. For how long in history have the group who do not believe God's existence ask the same question? I am not religious, but I am aware of some of the religious issues. As I confessed before, English is not my first language, I may not make it very clear that what I wanted. But I have been trying to disect the "none-existence" group's claims. But I cannot agree their conclusions:
(1) Amati delisted ZSM: because Amati finally realized they messed up the names (it should be Zheng Quan as opposed to Zhang Shu Mei). So I asked for the evidence that Amati did mess up. If Glenn made that claim, I would expect at least two things to happen: (a). Glenn was directly or indirectly involved in that matter. (
Glenn got hold of some stuff which at least can be deduced easily or clearly stated so. I was asking for that kind of "proof", not show me "ZSM doesn't exist".(2) Jay provided some scientific evidence by counting the transaction/feedback on the ZSM. I could not agree with the approach and I also provided my reasoning. You guys are welcome to challenge my reasoning.
(3) The "none-existence/trade name" side dismissed or downplayed the significance of LA Times citing Ziang Shu Mei for potential bad Journalism. That I agreed to some extent, but one instance doesn't cover it all. Because if our claim is so, then our assumption will have to "all journalism is not trustworthy". If someone can find just one instance to contradict what we said, then our case is over.
So on and so forth...
You can see from the questions I raised that I was not asking for "show me that ZSM doesn't exist" but "how do you support your conclusion". In addition, I did mention I did not know whether or not ZSM exists, but I was just not convinced by the given reasons.
Sorry for bad command of English. Now I know what all the fuss is about!!!! Thanks a lot for the post, falstaff. I like your icon.
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Hi Yuen,
Thanks a lot for the "notes"! (This is a pun! )
>Those double stops...
Eureka! Double stops mean play two strings together? Duh, I thought it was some kind of super myth (double stops was mentioned in the masterclass website)
> Take your violin and play...
Yes, Sir! I hear and obey.
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Ha.....
Maybe we should PM granny goose to get grandpa goose instead? It would save her about $35K or more, wouldn't it?
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As a seller, like miles...
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Sorry, Richf, but I am NOT a seller. I am a BUYER (only sold one thing in a year?). The seller left me a retaliating negative feedback because she screwed up (failed to ship 35 days after payment was made and refused to sell after I left her a negative feedback).
Good luck with eBay. My experience is that unless your complaint has anything to do with their revenue, they will do ABSOLUTELY nothing.
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Points well taken, falstaff. One clarification is that: I might be wrong, but I don't recall who in this thread has asked for proof that ZSM doesn't exist. I for one will ask him/her how. What I was challenging is the conclusion some posters drew from their reasoning/evidence. Furthermore, Violinbeginner and aother poster(s) asked for explanation of the "nullness" (if there's such a word) of the Master cited in Bill Townsend's LA Times interview and also his own website. These two big points were NOT directly addressed by the supporters of "ZSM's none-existece". Instead, I was concluded to be Andrew Wong of HK because I seemingly defended Andrew with zeal in this thread and information about me was taken from this thread only.
In addition, again, Bill Townsend is also omitted in your post in our quest. Although it is impossible to prove that a ZSM doesn't exist, it is not impossible to get Bill Townsend to clarify whether he messed up the name of his "Master" (Zheng Quan as opposed to Ziang Shu Mei/Zhang Shu Mei).
Finally (alas!), unless the clouds shadowing over Bill Townsend's Master clear up, I will still put my benefit of doubt on the side of existence although admittedly I don't know the bottom line. And I don't die to know it either as long as I am happy with my purchases.
"de"-Marketing ZSM when ZSM was delisted on AFL
Why Not An Old German?
in The Auction Scroll
Posted
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Inexpensive Doesn't Mean Cheap
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In the world of violin, Cheap Doesn't Mean Inexpensive, either.