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Blank face

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Posts posted by Blank face

  1. With this sort of mop (probably river oyster) I usually expect the rails. It looks as if it could be silver, what is relative rare to find, usually they used nickel for these even at silver mounted frogs.

    The head model could be a Pajeot copy, what could point toward a Knopf workshop which used this, but that would be highly speculative. Maybe it’s older than I assumed in the first place.

  2. The special about the bow (cheap Markneukirchen trade) is that the shop, dealer or whoever applied the brands couldn’t decide wether to put a spurious French or English name on it and thought better to stay on the safe side with both.B)

    The violin is more or less what the roadshow told, though I guess that nobody can prove if it was made in Klingenthal, Markneukirchen or another village of the Vogtlandish region.

  3. Intuitive assumptions aren't science.

    At least you would have at first to define the way the blocks are "rotten" (what they don't appear to be in my eyes, just covered in dirt), by mold, by worms, by another form of degration, how weight and density might have changed, and then take measures if the structure is more "damping" (by speed of sound, frequencies or what?) or maybe even more resonating, and after that find out if and how this affects other vibrations or resonances, maybe with chladni patterns, spectral analysis or another significant method, in comparison to uncompromised similar shaped blocks and plates of similar materials (where you have to do the same tests). If it does, you have to find out if the alterations result in a different sound ((maybe blind tested by a big enough group of qualified (how?) players)). After this you need to find a way to decide if the alterations are regarded as "bad" or "good", in short and long terms.

    Having done all this you could run for a bachelor grade in Spongebob Physics.

  4. 48 minutes ago, Renegade said:

    I think you know perfectly well what I'm talking about ... :)
    But if in England or Vienna, physics as an object was in a limited amount ... see photos
    The (acoustic) interaction between both plates (the two examples) is perhaps understandable.
    For me, the rotten (touchwood) blocks act like that yellow sponge.

    Upload in mp3 version? :)

    20220921_195158.jpg

    20220921_195242.jpg

    A real violin doesn't look like that and does much less work like that. You could call it "The Spongebob Violin", and "Spongebob Physics".:D

  5. 4 hours ago, Renegade said:

    Sorry to 'take over' the thread (!).
    However, if you think that vibration has nothing to do with joint stiffness, you are wrong. The best example is soudpost. And the vibration starts on the saddle at the pegbox, the vibrations go not only over the strings but also on the wood of the neck (it is enough to change the wood in the fingerboard and we have a different sound). So 'poor connection' of the neck with the soundboard (via both blocks) is the basis.
    Just because someone 'knocks' on 'belly' before sticking the violin together doesn't mean it's the only 'sound source'.
    The engine alone is not enough for a car to drive.

    If you’re reading Maestronet for a longer while and more closely you might notice that the Pegbox is full of discussions, claims and arguments about tuning each single part of a violin, what might affect the sound in a good or bad way etc etc ad nauseam.

    Obviously there never will be a consensus about this matters, but starting a thread about your concerns will guarantee you another 20-pager or more.:blink:

  6. 14 minutes ago, jacobsaunders said:

    I don’t think BF would dare “include Austria within Saxony”.

    Yup, and there are even people not daring to include Bavaria (with Mittenwald and Bayern München) within Germany.:)

  7. 44 minutes ago, Delabo said:

    I thought my point was clear enough. I was suggesting that the violin looked Austrian and not German, which is why I suggested "Vienna". I thought that perhaps you included Austria within "Saxony".

     

    1 hour ago, uguntde said:

    Aren't Saxony and Austria both part of the Sacrum Imperium Romanum Nationis Germaniae? :P

    This would go deeply into political concepts.The "Holy Empire" was called by it's idea only Roman, but was dismissed as "of German Nation" rather more by it's enemies, because it started including territories both North and South of the Alps, later even to Spain and oversea (where the sun didn't set). Those who didn't want to be ruled by the Emperors called it "of German nation", meaning that they should restrict their rule to the regions with German speaking people. The 19th century nationalism started to use the German nation (which didn't exist at this point) in a more romantic and literary meaning. 

    Even the 1871 founded Prussian/German empire included people who surely didn't call themselves German, as Polish or Danish, not to mention the many ethnics of the Austro-Hungarian KuK Empire in the 19th and early 20th century.

    Auction decriptions often try to help with the term "Germanic", or the French say Ecole d'Est. To get out of such complications I would prefer a nomination mostly based on the actual situation, and look more at regional schools and their relations. German (which includes very different schools), Austrian (with Salzkammergut as a school on their own), West-Bohemian/Czech etc., without being dogmatic in every case. Markneukirchen/Schönbach (or Luby) for example was a regional school in two countries, Austria and nearby South Bohemian regions another, and so on.

    Of course this would require the ability to define what constitutes a particular school.

     

  8. 2 hours ago, wooden said:

    Here there are more photos of inside. The pegbox is not blackened inside. The neck is original attached to the upper block with a nail.

    IMG_20220111_173705.jpg

    IMG_20220111_173710.jpg

    IMG_20220111_173723.jpg

    IMG_20220111_173737.jpg

    IMG_20220111_173740.jpg

    Of course the inside view reveals that it was made most probably with an inner mould, therefore I have to agree with Jacob that it's from the Austrian or a related school. The morticed parts of the linings are much shorter than what I'm used to see from Mittenwald for example.

  9. 3 hours ago, Delabo said:

    What is a "swung pegbox"? 

    I am surprised that you give this a "Saxony" attribution. Does the term "Saxony" include countries other than Germany, such as Vienna?

    One can call it S-shaped, too. Saxony was and still is a clearly defined country, while Vienna is Austrian. I must admit that I don't really understand this question neither. The making there was usually located in Markneukirchen and surrounding, though the West-Bohemian school is closely related.

  10. 4 hours ago, Renegade said:

    it starts very early, almost at the peg on the A string, and is very clear, deep... maybe it will tell you something?
    As usual, I heard something inaccurate, or I made a mistake ... but I think it was about Prague or Hungary, but it probably applied to later violins :/
    Sorry for the confusion

    IMG_20220920_114431.thumb.jpg.2e1005ed976454bb91ba31942e180401.jpg

    I would call this "fluted first winding of the volute". Many Markneukirchen and Bohemian violins are showing this feature (often with a sort of step at the beginning), but not exclusively.

  11. The blackened pegbox thing is a feature to distinguish violins from the mid 19th century onwards, and a very unreliable, because black color can be painted on or scraped away easily. In regards of the OP violin it is irrelevant IMO.

    1 hour ago, Renegade said:

    And the quite clear, deep fluting on the side of the snail (it starts almost at peg A) tells you nothing?

    Could you explain more clearly what you're talking about?

  12. I don't think that the actual catalogue can tell anything in particular about a bow purchased 30 years ago. In fact the bows from the catalogue could all have been made in China, and the photos here are even too dark to say if it's pernambuco or Abeille wood (or something else).

  13. It seems to be build on the back. Though this won't be unusual for old French the swung pegbox gives me more a Saxony impression. But to be sure we would need more details, if the scroll front fluting is deeply cut (though good Markneukirchen had this sometimes, too), and how the inside work looks.

  14. 14 minutes ago, Renegade said:

    often when determining the origin of a violin, you ask's about the bow ... and this in the context of combining them with the origin of the violins themselves ... How to explain this, bow are also exchanges.

    I think nobody ever asked about bows to guess the origin of a violin. This you misunderstood. Questions about bows are just asked to check if they are possibly more valuable than the violin itself. This isn't the case very often, but sometimes a matter of speculation.

  15. Trademarks like Dresden, Bausch, Panpi, Aubert etc on bridges were just brands and don't have anything to do with the origin of a violin, also don't tell about dealers. They could have been replaced or exchanged anywhere at any time.

    The glue dots indicate that someone didn't trust their bottom seam.:)

    I general very clean inside surfaces at cottage industy violins are indicating machine work, usually more from the 20th century. As was pointed out several times before, the industy declined in the 1930s, bob was widely used still in GDR times.

  16. 3 hours ago, shunkpenn said:

    Thanks Blank!  Any thoughts on what shop?  Bow appears to have the original lapping with design and the adjuster I thought was a bit unusual with the second cut as well as pinned slide?  Also the thumb projection appears to have been altered.

    99D8A3BA-C079-44A4-8204-4794E06C2D28.jpeg

    D10336D8-8291-4020-8851-74BF201F3DA8.jpeg

    76197C1C-D3FB-4017-A93D-46F4B7E2C17C.jpeg

    These half round "channel" adjuster collars can be found in a lot of variations. This is a more elaborated version. Also pins in the underslide were usual, in the 19th century Markneukirchen bow making, and at cheaper bows, even more than screws. The thumb projection was cut lower by some jerk, probably to adjust it to a personal grip.

    The silk winding is nice and well preserved, but not really rare during the period. As Jacob explained, it would be difficult to ascribe it to a particular shop, and the mutilated frog doesn't help.

  17. 47 minutes ago, Delabo said:

    I can see how someone could have inserted the top pin because the  purfling is cut close by

    It's not necessary to lift the purfling to add such pins. With a bit of skill (and sharp tools) one can carve halfcircular pins and widen a small drill hole into a halfcircle, too, at least at the visible surface.

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