Posts posted by Blank face
7 hours ago, thatcleverwind said:
The tailpiece is marbled throughout, and is translucent. It doesn't appear to have had any alteration. I am curious however, as to how it affects the instrument and will probably give it a go.
I am interested in learning better how to assess things like you've referenced (rib construction, arching styles, and wood origins). Could you make any recommendations on approach/methods to learning? I do not have a local luthier to study with.
The tailpiece looks now more like being made of horn, but that's difficult to decide by photos.
The Strad magazine article is informative, but more for an earlier period. For the later 19th century you can read here: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/325798-quiz-for-addie/&do=getLastComment
From your new photos the violin looks of course much better than at the first set, probably older than I assumed before. Could you look for the features described in the linked thread, especially scroll fluting, lower rib and inside work?
Once more, the cultural value of a violin is determined by the preservation of the original condition, so every attempt to alter things like varnish, ff shape and so on would destroy this value. This has absolutely nothing to do wether it is played upside down or in any other way.
10 hours ago, HH1978 said:
These family members worked a century later tha Augustin, therefore their style is quite different. You could look for them at websites like Viaduct violins, violindocs or Cozio (I didn't yet). In general one can assume that much of the production from this period were overworked or just labelled Mirecourt instruments.
1 hour ago, thatcleverwind said:
Rather afraid to say much else on this forum... we will modify the instrument to our aesthetic preferences, including stripping and refinishing perhaps, though at the moment, my teen likes how it looks.
Right, you might know that the forum will tell you that removing the original varnish will remove the rest of the former antiques value, too.
I can see only one single glue joint at the bottom down left, far away from the post area, and this isn’t necessarily a crack, could be an original added wing (very common to this origin). The belly looks well preserved, no visible soundpost or bassbar crack.
It‘s clear that an instrument of this price range should be bought with a trial period and refund only.
1 hour ago, HH1978 said:
Thanks Blank face!
What about the instrument made in the Dijon workshop? Similar quality?
I have no idea, but Dijon is not far away from Mirecourt, so I would assume they made violins in the same style.
The tailpiece is probably from dyed fruitwood, and someone removed the color leaving some residues.
The reason why the ff were altered is left to speculation, it looks as if a pegreamer or similar tool was used, cutting deeper into the summer than the winter grain. The varnish was partially removed to make it look older and more worn than it factually is. The rib construction, arching, also the wood give clue that it is from the Vogtlandish region. The scroll could be from somewhere else. Is the front of the volute carved to the very end?
At least it looks like a good Mittenwald viola from the assumed period in a good condition. Unlikely that it’s Sebastian Kloz, but a real could be a multiple of that price.
There we’re a lot of makers from the Mittenwald region possibly could have made it, but only a few were named Kloz.
3 hours ago, HH1978 said:
not much infos on the quality of their instruments.
They are mostly known for using the brand "Marquis de Lair d'Oiseaux" at Nicolas-similar models. Good Mirecourt quality of the period, usually very large.
4 hours ago, GeorgeH said:
Is that good or bad?
Looks to me like a Markneukirchen violin around 1900 with an overworked belly: varnish stripped partially and the ff roughly altered. The Fendt repair label looks like a facsimile, too. Otherwise it seems to be in a workable condition.
The graft (not clearly visible if it is real at all) is either part of the antiquing or a repair, for example replacing a throughneck.
Looking again into Lüttgendorf, it seems that the mysterious Teuffel (sic) named maker wasn’t belonging to the Silesian school of Glatz, but is described as „similar to Rauch“. So we had actually some photos in another thread giving an idea how a violin by a member of the Rauch family would look like: https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/357822-violin-identification/
and therefore what roughly should be expected in case this should be the person we are looking for.
Your violin looks more from the 1900s. „Fubbi“, whoever this was, simply copied an entry from Lüttgendorff, which surely has no relation to this sort of violin.
Silesian violins from earlier periods were discussed here several times as „Glatz region“, so one could find them using a search.
3 hours ago, Jean Hilsabeck said:
Hello! I read this thread with great interest because I own a violin made by Roman Teufel, and yes, he was a real maker! His instruments are definitely NOT factory produced! I’m traveling to Germany this summer to do more research on Teufel and his instruments, and hope to write a book on this overlooked master violin maker.
I would love to hear from other Teufel owners. My parents bought me mine in Los Angelea when I graduated from college many years ago. It is my prized possession! I wouldn’t sell her for any amount of money—she means that much to me!
Here are some photos of my baby. ❤️☺️
Thanks for this interesting informations and photos. We waited since months for photos of the former posters instruments, but unfortunately she/he didn't respond anymore.
I agree that this looks like a nice violin. Just for the records, there were more ways of making in Germany at this period than just "factory" (what was in fact either cottage industry or homeworker work) or single makers doing everything on their own (rather rare) but also many makers buying prefabricated parts or violin "boxes in the white" from the trade to work them out, apply their own varnish and so on. these are usually called "Großstadtgeigen" - big city violins.
So it would be interesting to see some photos as described here:https://maestronet.com/forum/index.php?/topic/333119-how-to-photograph-an-instrument-for-identifcation-purposes/&do=getLastComment
and a photo of the label, too. Maybe it would be possible to tell a bit more.
5 hours ago, DistractedCat said:
I didn't want it treated like a school instrument job.
Sadly this headplate looks like a beginner’s attempt. The protruding tip will most probably break off very soon, the rear side is too short to protect anything and there’s a scratch from wood through the liner implying that it happened during the work. The mortise seems to be too long at the front. These are just a few visible points, there could be more. Such a plate should be replaced usually.
Your luthier would need a motivation for improving his efforts and skills.
32 minutes ago, Violadamore said:
you two clotsmy learned colleagues would harass me for that post. Whatever
I don’t find anything disparaging in the first responses (except yours ) so I’m waiting for your definition of harassment.
10 minutes ago, Violadamore said:
Thanks for the delightful label. "Cremonalia" sounds like it might be a fun festival to institute. Combine elements of the Saturnalia with a violin competition? [Raises a kylix of wine in salute,]
„Stainer in Absalom Brimborium“ or „Fratelli Fiscer Allaballa“ were also popular.
To be fair it should be noted that fitting a good headplate is usually more expensive than 100 Dollar (at least where I'm living), for good reasons. It's always better not trying to save money at the wrong place.
1 hour ago, Violadamore said:
So perhaps their counterfeiting of their competitors was widespread. ingrained and habitual, even centuries before mass production and spray varnish?
If they were planning to counterfeit they used labels like"Hoyer in Nürneberg" or "Statuari Cremonalia baviebat" (s.below).
The OP gnawed on Thir label looks as if it was added much later, probably through the f hole, adding a mountain of glue residue with dirt collection.
17 hours ago, Schwartzinc said:
Not necessarily if it can be established that the person existed AND did fiddle around with making instruments.
If you establsh a name or whatever doesn't change a iota that the violin is a cheap import from Saxony from the 2nd half of the 19th century with a beech wood scroll.
4 hours ago, Violadamore said:
You have a violin here which I find extremely interesting. It appears to me to be a deliberate attempt by a late 18th. to early 19th. Century Saxon/Vogtland maker to intentionally fake a violin by their contemporary, Matthias Thir, of Vienna.
We see a very common model used by several Markneukirchen makers from the period, for example Schönfelders, Voigts and others. With a bit of fantasy one can find a lot of influences, but factually it's a genuine Vogtland model, not a copy of anything in particular. To give these a name without a reliable signature might be a hard task, because they all were close related, trained and/or employed by each other.
Unfortunately Mr O'Various is absolutely right in regard of the sad condition.
2 hours ago, martin swan said:
a nice MK bow from the early 20th century
Agree. For example the rounded rear of the adjuster button would be a typical feature.
The violin (stripped and revarnished) looks to me like from the mid 19th century at earliest possible date, so the search based on the fancy inscription is pointless anyway.
12 hours ago, Violadamore said:
What I said was, "a fortune in repairs". This is relative, but the work I can already see necessary (there may be more), along with options like excellent new strings, and Wittner pegs, etc., would likely run well over $1000 total even if done on the cheap by a rural shop. Go to a top shop, and the result would be several times that much.
As I wrote, that's routine, except for those expecting to get something for nothing. Do you think $1000 for a proper violin repair is exeggerated? And top shops would sell such violins for top prices, too.
12 hours ago, Violadamore said:
It must be your lucky day. See below.
To have a lucky day once is possible, but a different thing than "often". But this insight comes only with experience.
A question for french violins experts
in The Pegbox
Without any greater risk I can tell „on the internet“ that this violin looks to me like a better Mirecourt trade instrument from the assumed period, or possibly a bit later.
Wether this was originally branded and sold by Claudot and falls into the category of allegedly 95 selfbuilt instruments, into a „shop“ range or was branded later by someone else is a different question and would indeed need some more experience with instruments by this maker.