Blank face
-
Posts
9703 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Events
Downloads
Gallery
Articles
Store
Posts posted by Blank face
-
-
7 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:
@Shelbow I still think it's British, but after these pix my maker has moved forward a century or two. Does no one else actually have any ideas at all????
By these pictures it can be guesswork only. I would like to know if this thick deep black purfling stripes are whalebone? If so, I would rather think about a Dutch origin.
-
4 hours ago, Pagamini said:
I'm sending photos of the interior for evaluation of the construction. It appears to be dirty, with a kind of white powder stuck to the wood:
At least the cleats at the middle seem don't exclude a Mirecourt origin, though other features don't look that way. Mind the deep sawmarks at the inside ribs, which partially were'nt planed smooth at the outside, what's typical for an industrial production.
The professional Amati statement (which reads as if it was written by an AI) can be understood as an invitation to consign to an "a violin labelled S. 10 Pounds" auction, so I wouldn't give more weight to it than exactly this.
-
1 hour ago, Violadamore said:
You seem to have forgotten what Jacob has hammered into us about traditional violin craftsmen persisting in using the method that they apprenticed in. The B-O-B style didn't magically vanish from the British Isles in 1815. It faded out over about 75 years, as it ceased to be taught, and makers using it died off. "[C]heap and easily available" didn't happen overnight, either. It took time for the railroads to appear and eventually spread to the periphery, to make that possible.
What has building on the back to do with imitating cottage industry instruments? This method is much older than that way of making and is common to many different styles and regional traditions, which can look very different.
Please stop confusing things and give some examples of what you're talking about so that it's understandable.
-
46 minutes ago, Shelbow said:
Varnish looks very different in these photos.
Agree. But the photos are still insufficient to tell anything for sure. There’s a pinned thread at the top of this side how to make photos for ID purposes.
-
36 minutes ago, Pagamini said:
a review done by a professional from the Amati website.
So let it sell them professionally
-
It looks revarnished.
-
9 hours ago, Violadamore said:
No, that's something I'd noticed from rural examples, and was drawing a parallel with, noting that Brits making fiddles resembling Markies was something seen here before, so it shouldn't be a surprise. That London firms hired some village makers who'd drifted into London seeking work is likely too, and only to be expected.
Do you confuse the periods in time? British and Scottish violins looking very similar to Saxony was noted in regards of things like Duke school or Furber school during the late 18th/early 19th century, especially during Napoleon's continental blockade, but rather not later, when instruments from the cottage industry were more cheap and easily available on the islands and there was no sense in imitating them.
-
42 minutes ago, Violadamore said:
IMHO, no one here can or will prove anything solid about the OP violin and it's relation or lack of it to the long defunct Hart firm. I have my educated opinion and you have yours. They don't agree. So what
I thought your point was to prove that lesser English makers copied/imitated the Saxon cottage industry, and that these came through Hart & Son. Maybe I remember that better than you by yourself, after getting lost somewhere in all the lines?
-
24 minutes ago, Violadamore said:
Scraped off MN mostly, and Morris's citations, along with what Tarisio notes in Cozio, and then doesn't say or list about the firm. For instance, from Morris, emphasis mine,
For the founder, J.T. Hart,
"HART, JOHN THOMAS, London: 1805-74. A pupil
of Samuel Gilkes. He did not make many instruments, but
attained great reputation as repairer and connoisseur. He
brought together many remarkable collections of Italian
instruments, such as the Coding, the Plowden, and a large
part of the Gillot, etc. I have never seen an instrument
bearing his label, and cannot say what his work was like."For the son,
"Hart is not, of course, an actual maker, but he employs
a large number of skilful and experienced English and
French workmen, and the firm turns out a very considerable
number of instruments annually. These instruments,
naturally, like all work produced by these large firms, are
of various kinds and qualities, but the better class instru-
ments reach a high standard of excellence, and will bear
comparison with the finest work of some of the more famous
workshops of the Continent. The personal supervision and
genius of Mr. Hart is evident in every department of the
work, especially in the choice of material for the more expen-
sive class of instrument.
The Messrs. Hart make a special feature of their facsimile
copies of old Italian masterpieces. "Tarisio lists some of their bows only, and the rest, IMHO, amounts to "damnation with faint praise",
"John Thomas Hart
(1805 – 1874)John Thomas Hart apprenticed to Samuel Gilkes from 1820. He established himself independently on Vauxhall Bridge Road around 1836 and at 14 Princes Street starting in 1838. The business was recorded as 'Violin & Gun Warehouse' in 1840. His output was small. He was known primarily as an expert and connoisseur, and he founded the firm Hart & Son, which continued until 1939.
Price History
Currently no auction results to display."
And then,
"Hart & Son
Bow maker
(1885 – 1939)Price History
- The auction record for this maker is $7,253 in May 2005, for a bass.
- 124 auction price results."I wish I could have rummaged in their "Gun Warehouse".
You should have learned, with some dedication and attention over the years, that all this quotes are sales blurb mostly with no, or very little base in reality.
And it all has nothing to do with the OP.
-
On 2/15/2026 at 11:21 AM, Alto Ego said:
I was under the impression that "the usual" can lack a Devil's Triangle, particularly those made outside the 1880ish-1920ish time frame.
I don’t see the point here.
This triangle, or delta, or dog‘s nose or whatever one likes to name it, is already there at the OP, just to a slightly lesser extent than at other examples.
Though it’s necessary to remind that this isn’t an invariably feature for Mnk/Schb, as less as the front scroll fluting stopping early, but sort of „most have it, some don’t“. And both features can be present at other origins, too.
-
It’s not only a matter of aesthetics and devaluation but can destabilize the frog at the point of highest pressure, what will lead to cracking, deformation or in the worst case to destruction.
-
Leaving all reasoning aside, I can’t see nothing but an ordinary Markneukirchener trade violin with a typical scroll for that origin and an ordinary Fahrkarte.
There are many variations within this style.
-
57 minutes ago, Pagamini said:
When it has Roman numeral markings, does that mean it's French?
No. Roman numbers -assembly marks, matching at stick and slide of the frog- are very common at German bows, less at some Mirecourt factory bows.
-
Yes, looks like a decent Mirecourt bow. Sad that the thumb projection (tongue) is mutilated, what is a certain devaluation.
-
What’s the one‘s owl is the others nightingale. Both violins are different variations of the same.
-
A German pernambuco bow with nickel mounts. Worth approximately the half to 2/3 of the first.
-
I wouldn't call this a particular Tubbs model. Similar head shapes, especially combined with metal faces, were commonly used by the 19th Knopf family and their followers, who also produced a lot what was sold by several wholesalers (like the later Bausch or Weichold) under their names and brands. Some certifiers are dropping more easily names to such rather unspecific and unbranded bows than others, so it's a sort of minefield asking for an attribution.
-
1 hour ago, BassClef said:
Oof, Can you link to any threads that may clarify this
-
54 minutes ago, Pagamini said:
You're certainly right. But interestingly, the characteristics you mention are the same ones that characterize Scarampella violins
No. Scarampella has a vivid varnish , a rough but rather aesthetic approach and toolmarks, but not from a circular saw(as here at the ribs, what is typical for Cottage industry).
-
30 minutes ago, Chargerrr said:
Photos of the mortise inside.
It looks as if the mortise was elongated towards the end of the stick, very clean but visible by the different toolmarks.
-
Yup, a pity with the ff. Most likely South German/Austrian, the scroll reminds me of Vils.
-
10 minutes ago, chrissweden said:
the frog is totally different
And the nose. And the silhouette curves. And the chamfers. But the rest....is somehow different, too.
It surely has a "Schmidt"?
-
4 hours ago, Chargerrr said:
Thanks for answers ! This is one of my bows. I took the photo too. If you need more, I can take them. The width of the mortise at its narrowest point is 3.9 mm. It looks like its walls were broken off.
Thanks, the photos look very professional. As I said before, the actual state of the mortise and stick ends makes it difficult to tell how it looked like originally, or if the mortise was elongated backwards. The frog and adjuster seem to be from the old German school, but for the same reason it’s not sure that they are original. So everything is left for speculation.
-
By the photos it seems that there were some severe repairs at the stick end/frog mortice making it difficult to tell if frog and stick belong together. At least at the rear photo it looks as if there was an unusual (for a German bow of the period) wide gap.
The head shows in my eyes not much resemblance to the more reknown Knopf family models, if you leave out the obscure (and discussed) August Moritz and similar.
Who took this photos? Some internet seller?
Italian violin
in The Pegbox
Posted
Model, big scroll, pointy corners and long thin ff would more fit to Dutch than to any other origins using occasionally whalebone (Füßen possibly, too), but I’m not suggesting that either.
I‘m also still not sure if the varnish is original (f.e. for the irregular ground which Michael mentioned) and the purfling could have been added later, too. I would add the very pale middle stripe to the list of oddities.