polkat
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Posts posted by polkat
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I'm rehairing one bow (I'm not a pro at this but I do okay) that has a nice, fully lined frog, but the mortise in the frog is a perfectly round hole (almost as if it was simply a drilled hole, which in fact it may be). It has a radius of about 5mm or a little less.
If anyone here has seen this before, what shape of plug should I cut for it? Thanks!
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I read somewhere, can't remember where and I have no evidence to back this up, that violins with less arching height have a tendacy to project better (and/or are louder). I assume such instruments are well built to begin with. Anyone heard this before?
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Yea xdmitrix420, that's pretty much the same with me. I'm just looking for a rest that doesn't attach to any resonating parts, and as an amatuer maker as well as player, it's been my experience that the ribs and plate area that the rests attach to do contribute to tone. I think it's why I notice a difference tone with or without one (in my opinion). By the way, I find it rather odd that there is a Menuhin style shoulder rest available when he himself never used one!
I looked at the three chin rests mentioned earlier in this thread, and yes, they are quite similar to what I'm thinking about. Also yes, the prices are high, so I'm going to try and make one, particularly with the rest just off the back plate...more as a cushion for the collarbone then an actual shoulder rest. I think the end result will play much like a violin without a shoulder rest, yet be more comfortable on the collarbone and provide a bit more friction.
I get rather irritated by people who yell "Crutch" to those using shoulder rests. It's simply a tool to help one with a different physic play better, just like Perfection pegs help one tune better, or glasses help one see better. How many sight readers with poor vision would go to a gig without their glasses (crutch?)?
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Yes, I'm well locked in for comfort as I play. I've been using an old Wolf Forte Primo for many years. Never had any problem with tension or pain, and I can look at other players and even raise my chin while playing with no problem. So using the rest is no problem for me. The other day I misplaced it and practiced without it (and yes, I know how to hold it without the rest). Boy, the strain and pain came on strong without it...but, I noticed that the instruments tone increased considerably. So my only conclusion was that a shoulder rest clamping the ribs and plate edges on the sides does indeed have some negative effect tone.
That's what got me to thinking how a rest that clamps at the block (perhaps supported at the chin rest clamps-assuming a center mounted chin rest) rather then the sides might offer an improvement in tone, while not changing significantly in comfort from a normally mounted shoulder rest. I think that there is something to this and plan to search one out. I'll look at the ones suggested.
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Well, in a way that's my point. I'm trying to get away from the shoulder rest after using one for years, but I find it quite hard play without it.
So, I'm thinking about designing one that has the least effect on tone. For most who don't use one, the back edge of the plate, more then the plate surface itself, rides on the collar bone (not actually on the shoulder directly). I definately hear a better, more open tone when I try this, so I'm trying to figure out a rest that uses the back edge (and as little of it as possible) for mounting. I was told once that there are shoulder rests that attach to or with the chinrest clamps, but I have never seen one. Shoulder rest or no shoulder rest...I guess it comes down to the tone you are willing to accept.
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The shoulder rest has been around in one form or another since at least the turn of the century (the last one) and some early users played quite well with them. I have a pic of Joe Venuti using a strap=on pad version in 1924. I think that many professional players resist using one mostly because they were taught that way, but perhaps partially because of the muffling effect on tone. I use one, but I have definately found that the clamping action does effect the tone. Has anyone or any company experimented with making a rest that attaches to the violin, but has little effect on tone?
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Thanks for that Brad. Good descriptive pictures! My only question is what tapering angle the tip holder has in it's depth, or is there any? Or does the question make sense?
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Thanks Brad, I'll look forward to seeing them.
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"Dichromatic" "dichroism" etc...I only used the word because I have heard others use it. Actually, if you look in Webster's, it's not there! Not in my '81 version anyway. But we all know what it means, and I have seen this effect on bare wood. So while a specific finish may enhance it, it does not create it.
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True that the tannin is spread fairly evenly throughout the wood, but the grain (ends or sides) are visually effected differently by the iron solution. All the wood darkens (actually if done right it ends up a light grey color which dissappears with the first finishing coat) but exposed end grains, which cause the flaming effect (as I've understood it), darken more. This was discussed in depth over on the MIMF forum (mostly by Mike Lewis) and it works. My above post was just to warn that the method (if he read about it and considered it's use) locks the flame and the dichromatic effect is lost.
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Yea, somebody probably tried them and returned them, but it's nearly impossible to try a set and then take them off without the peg ends of the strings retaining some curl (even if you try to straighten them). If the ends of yours were prefectly straight, it may have been something other then rosin on them.
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There are a number of ways to "pop" the flame in maple, but be wary of the chemical processes. Generally there is more tannin in the flames then in the lighter wood, which can be darkened with an iron solution, but the flame then becomes almost opaque and you loose the light refraction effect.
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Looking at pictures in the catalogs, it seems like it would be pretty easy to make one. Anyone done this? Thanks!
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Well, I personally one more then one violin. I won't be changing out the one with Perfections, but I'm interested in both the 8.5:1 ratio, and I suppose the ease of installation has it's merits as well. I've installed a number of sets of Perfections now for school kids, and easier (make that quicker) installs would be interesting. I'm a firm believer in this type of peg and probably won't go back to ebony on my personal stuff.
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Thanks guys, the responses make sense. But to make sure I understand, just a few questions more.
alfadir; in most of the frogs I've worked with the mortise is roughly some 10 to 12mm ahead of the back of the slide, so you are adding that distance, plus the depth of the mortise, right? Seems like you'd end up with the hair a tad long, no?
Brad; If the hair ends up the right length after you've done the two knots, isn't that a pretty big knot (5mm) to stuff under the plug?
Of course, I'll have to give these a try, and I'll let you know how it comes out. Thanks again!
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I don't normally rehair bows, but have done a few...some successful and some not. I usually install in the tip first, then comb it out and determine where to knot it for the frog. This is where I run into problems. How does one determine where to knot the hair at the frog end to end up with the right length once fully installed? I sometimes end up with the hair too long (and less often with the hair too short). With the frog installed and run up toward the tip, is there a standard place on the frog bottom to use as a guide to knot the hair? Thanks!
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Thanks DarylG, Yep they have them, but not at $13 apeice...more like $20 each. They sell a small shaft and a medium shaft size, which oddly, seems to be measured at the trim ring rather then at the widest portion of the shaft. I'm also concerned about the quality compaired to Perfection pegs. I still have some early Perfections on one of my personal violins that still work perfectly. Are the Wittner's as good?
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Thanks for the info. Yes, I've fitted a lot of Perfection pegs. I guess I'm more interested in finding out where these Wittner pegs might be available in the US, and what "10C" might be in American dollars. I am assuming that they are more expensive then the Perfections. How well do they work in compairison?
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I see where Wittner has released a geared peg much like the Perfection pegs, but with a claimed 8.5:1 gear reduction for finer tuning. Has anyone been able to try these yet, or know where they might be available, and at what price compaired to Perfections? Thanks!
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Wow! I mean no offence to anyone in saying that device seems pretty confusing compaired to some of the wood block homemade shavers I've seen pics of. Any other ideas? Thanks!
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I'm sure this has been covered many times, but I'm not having much luck with the search function. Does anyone have plans or can offer advice about making a homemade peg shaver (for standard 4/4 pegs)? Thanks!
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I used to use the method in the original post to pop the flame on lightly/poorly flamed maple, but it kills the dichromanism (or whatever the word is) so I stopped. Anyway, this wood also became grey, however, once the first finishing coat is applied, the grey disappears and looks like normal wood again with more evident flame. Try putting a coat of shellac or something on your grey pear wood and see what happens
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The few times I actually saw Kenny play his fiddle sounded fairly bright to me. What I did notice the one time I got to talk with him was that his post was nearly 1/2" behind the bridge!!
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Most bluegrass fiddlers I've known preferred a very bright, cutting, almost "steel" sound. Seems to me a loose post would mute that a bit, aside from the falling over problems. Can't see the point.
Weird frog mortise?
in The Pegbox
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It's not a cheap bow, but then again, it's not the original frog. So a half round plug should work? What would be the best approach to fixing a round mortise (just open it up toward the direction of the screw)?