CarloBartolini

Dave, the source is Nicholas Lemery, 1698. Most texts I read from the time mention Ossicedro and Gran Ginepro only....could the Gran Ginepro be the Tetraclinis Articulata? Seems 3 Italian varnish books from the 1700's source their Sandarac Text to Nicholas Lemery 1698, here is the Italian translation. This other quote goes on with the lines of what you are saying: ...and the Sandracca comes from various plans similar to Ginepro —Trattati medievali di tecniche artistiche, Bianca Silvia Tosatti. Dizionario botanico italiano: che comprende i nomi volgari italiani specialmente toscani e vernacoli delle piante : raccolti da diversi autori e dalla gente di Campagna, col corrispondente latino botanico, -From a book from 1827, called Farmacopea. SANDRACCA os. JUNIPERUS COMMUNIS. Lin. JUNIPERUS OXYCEDRUS. Lin. Resina. Geme (Gem?) of the ginepro, this resin of yellowish color, which afterwards becomes more charged once aged, is usually in the form of drops, or colature (that is glued) ; it is arid, and it breaks easily. It is believed that the Oxycedrus provides the best sandracca. According to some, the best sandracca is believed to be produced by the Thuya articulata di Vaahl, which lives in the reign of Tunisia (see Vaahl, Symb., bot. p-2, p96, fig 48) Now here is that it gets a interesting, from the 1700's translated from Italian: The Sandracca is purified as following, take Kali (1), and maybe also Soda (2) make it boil for two hours in water, afterwards, having it strained , or poured out by inclination, place in this water the Sandracca, that you should wash with two or three mani [hands, times] of this water. (1) Perhaps he means Salsola Kali = Kali Turgida Latin kallium means Potassium Kali carbonicum is potassium carbonate = potash. (2) Soda, there are many kinds of natural sodas, many available in the market at the time used by dyers, or to make glass, soap etc.

Hi Fred, thank you, Grenada is south of the regular Hurricane zone, there were 2 in the last 100 years, but not much damage in the bay I'm in, and they did not tie the boats at the time, now they do, Worst weather I've encountered was a little after I left Haiti, waited for about 10 days for a weather window in Bahia de las Aguilas in the Domenican Republic, one of the most beautiful beaches I have ever seen, when it calmed down I departed at midnight to turn the Cape Beata, in between the Cape and Beata Island, quite shallow can get rough but it was really calm, but after the cape one gets all the E mess coming from the Atlantic and bouces back at me--- than a really bad storm arrived, same mess I waited 10 days to die returned, about 35 knots of wind which is not spectacular but with the cape near by waves came from all directions....crazy...In my path there were these pitch black quite thick lines with a lot of wind coming from it, changed my course, I believe they were water spouts, 2 of them in my path, was uncomfortable but still safer than a walk in NY. it was a aprox 14 hours passage if I remember well.

More on the Gran Ginepro: It is a foreign Tree, large thorny, similar to the Cedro (Cedar), or to the Ginepro (Juniper), it’s leaves are made such as the Ginepro. It’s wood in Numidia is white, in Libya violet and black, and in Ethiopia very black. The Italians call it Sangu. Musical instruments are made with it. Exudes by incisions a gum similar to the Mastice. This tree is probably a species of Gran Ginepro, that G. Bauhin calls, Juniperus major bacca ruseseente, and Teostrato Oxycedrus, It’s Gum is varnish. translated from Nicolas Lémery 1698

From my research I did a few years ago I believe the real Sandarac to be from the "Ossicedro", as the old texts say. The Ossicedro is called by Linneo Juniperus Oxycedrus foliis ternis, patentibus, mucronatis, bacca brevioribus (2), but there are in these description two characteristics not always constant, and that is of having always leaves three to three, and the other of having fruits longer than the leaves. This is ordinarily a bush of mediocre height, that grows a lot in the warmer countries and is reduced to small bushes in the mountainous an northern parts, It’s trunk is tortuous and full of knots as that of the Ginepro (Juniper), of which it looks alike firstly in the figures of it’s leaves, if not that of the Ossicedro are larger, more acute and distant amongst each other. Piccioli (stems?) are it’s flowers and not dissimilar from the ones of the Ginepro, but without alikes and so very large are it’s berries, which in principle are green than yellowish, and finally in maturity the color chestnut, it is said it reaches the size of a hazelnut, even though perhaps it may not occur, except for in the more meridional countries since in other parts since in other parts it reaches only the size of a berry of asparagus, where it succeeds at the moment in no time as long as the leaves. The Ossicedro grows not only in Phoenicia (3) and other parts of Asia, but in almost all the meridional countries of Europe, specially in Spain, in France also and they coast the sea. In Spain it is frequent everywhere, maximum in the places between Segovia and Guadarama upon the road to Madrid, where raises many as the largest trees , and widens as much that it’s trunk is used to make beams as other large woods used by factories. It’s fruits are of a sweet flavor and appreciated, where the locals use it sometimes to eat with bread, being digestive as the berries of the Ginepro. The gum or instead resin that is drawn from the Ossicedro is claimed by some that may be the Sandracca of the Arabs (4), which can be different in virtues than the common, that is obtained from the Ginepro. It is used in medicine instead of mastic in some ointments , and is useful in the art of making a transparent varnish (5), is it used also by who writes to scour the paper after having scratched a type, as to write again above it, without danger of the ink expanding. - already rare in the late 1600's France, It is also said to be from the Gran Ginepro which grows really tall in the great mountains of Africa. No relation to the Sandracca of the old Greeks which is orpiment. As for the Gran Ginepro: And: Juniperus soliis tsndique imbricatis obtufts, ramis teretibus. Juniper with obtuse Leaves every-where lying over each other, and taper Branches. This is the Juniperus major, bacca rufefeente. C. B. P. 489. Greater Juniper with a brownish Berry The twelfth Sort grows naturally in Spain, Portugal, and the South of France, where it rises ten or twelve Feet high, sending out Branches the whole Length of the Stem, which are garnished with small obtuse Leaves, lying over each other like the Scales of Fish •, the Branches are small and taper, having no Angles or Corners, as most of the others have •, the male Flowers are situated at the End of the Branches in conical scaly Katkins, and the Berries grow below from the Side of the fame Branches. These are larger than those bf the common Juniper, and when ripe are brown. The gardeners dictionary: containing the best and newest methods ..., Volume 1 - Philip Miller - 1759 ---- CEDRUS {Ktdpoc and KtSptc), the Cedar, as we commonly translate it. According to the best botanical writers, however, the neipoc of the Greeks and Cedrus of the Romans was a species of Juniper. The Cedar of Lebanon seems to have been but little known to the Greek and Roman writers. Theophrastus, according to Martyn, appears to speak of it in the ninth chapter of the fifth book of his History of Plants, where he says that the eedars grow to a great size in Syria, so large, in fact, that three men cannot encompass them. These large Syrian trees are probably the Cedars of Lebanon, which Martyn believes Theophrastus had only heard of, and which he took to be the same with the Lycian cedars, only larger ; for in the twelfth chapter of the third book, where he describes the Cedar particularly, he says the leaves are like those of Juniper, but more prickly; and adds that the berries are much alike. The cedar described by Theophrastus, therefore, cannot, as Martyn thinks, be that of Lebanon, which bears cones, and not berries. He takes it rather for a sort of Juniper, called Juniperus major bacca rufescente by Bauhin, Oxyeedrus by Parkinson, and Oxyeedrus Phanicea by Gerard.1 Dioscorides" describes two species, of which the first, or large Cedar, is referred by Sprengel to the Juniperus Phcenicca, and the smaller to the Juniperus communis. Stackhouse, on the other hand, refers the common ncSpoc of Theophrastus to the Juniperus Oxyeedrus, and the KeSfUc to the Juniperus Sabina, or Savin. The Cedar of Lebanon, so celebrated in Scripture, is a Pine, and is hence named Pinus Cedrus by modern botanists. The nedpic of the medical authors is, according to Adams, the resin of the Juniper. Nicander calls it Keipow tutevdtc.1 A dictionary of Greek and Roman antiquities, Sir William Smith, Charles Anthon - 1843

Hey Martin, Joe, and everyone else, been refitting my boat like a madman than had to escape the winter in Maine, but when I reached the heat I had to escape hurricanes, and reffitiing on the way, only installed autopilot in Nassau...haha......almost a year later I am in Grenada, SE Caribbean....and the varnish bug bit me again....

Hi again, been a long time away. Was searching for decent turpentine in the Caribbean and thought MN would be educational, it was...buying more Diamond G... Some things that came up to me when reading this, I do like the historical aspect of varnishmaking. In the mid 1500's Leonardo Fioravanti an Italian doctor went to Spain to help in the construction of the biggest pharmacy the World had seen, financed by Phillip II, he got in trouble by criticizing the spaniards primitive method of distillation in copper alembics, he only used glass. The Italians were expert distillers at the time, most likely better than today. The renaissance in Italy was an era of excellence, there were more ebanists than carpenters in Firenze, I believe the excellence carried on in Cremona, only the very best was used. Many artists at the time bought their materials in Venice, they had so much more than we do now. The standards were high. 1620 there were 20 apothecaries in Cremona. They had all kinds of glasses available, and know how to seal very well so stuff could be well kept and transported. Turpentine is the sap of the tree not the spirit, the most common was Pino Silvestre. The one from the terebinth used to come from Chios or Cyprus, whitish, very clear, thicker and more tenacious than the pine. I believe that the spirit derived from the first distillation of Pine Sap was called" Acqua di Ragia", and that same liquor placed through a second distillation was called "Spirito di Trementina". The spirit derived from water vapor distillation was called "Spirito di Ragia". But sometimes Acqua di Ragia was inappropriately called Spirito di Trementina. Also "Spirito di Ragia" Spirits of Turpentine were made by a multitude of processes, some used hot air burners for more even and soft heating, some mixed it with sand than distilled it, some added water and separated it afterwards, some used oakum in the distillation process, they knew a lot more than we do today, had incredible glass instruments made by real artists such as Nicolò Dall'Aquila from Murano, most of it is lost knowledge.

Thanks in advance, my friend’s son, 9 years old will begin learning the violin. He needs to buy it in Brazil because of the 100% import taxes and huge import bureaucracies, anyone knows if any of these, in the 300 R$ to 500 R$ range are any good? And what size? ½? http://lista.mercadolivre.com.br/violino

Music recording should be about the music, not preserving anything....and trying to make the player sound as good as we can make him.... Of course you could try in a recording to emulate as close you can the sound of a certain instrument through a certain amplifier and set of speakers...but as soon as you change the speakers, sound like a different instrument...And the vision must persist through mixing, which is when things really change. But, yes, Jimmy Hendrix guitar sounds like a stratocaster, and Brian May's sound like the one his dad made or the new copy... You can not make chicken sandwich with turkey...but with compressors, expanders, freq dependent compressors, limiters, all kinds of eq, solid state, with or without capacitors, tube...you can drive the preamp very high to get more harmonics, auto tune....and so on....a lot can be done

Hello, my friend David Percival is searching for any information regarding his relative David C. Percival and his instruments, a cello maker from Sandwich, Massachusetts, US, mid 19th century. Any information is appreciated. Thank you in advance. Carlo

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Thanks....them black matters...hot weather disaster? I wonder if there was not a good system there already...or it was like the barbarian countries where they disposed it out the window? Not a glamorous subject to research upon...neither good party conversation, unless you want someone to leave.... Better move on from this, as it may be a thread killer too...

May I enquire why your assumption Janito? Would not the streets be of cobblestone or some other kind of pavement? (or are cobblestone streets dusty?) thanks

How about rabbit glue, compared to cow hide glue, I have quite a lot I bought to make Scagliola. It seems quite strong. http://shop.kremerpigments.com/en/mediums--binders-und-glues/water-soluble-binders/rabbit-skin-glue--fine-grind-63028:.html

I am assuming you know oil of stone is petroleum: Oil of Stone = Olio di Sasso = Olio di Pietra = Petrolio = Petroleum In old Italy available from 2 sources - nature or achieved by the distillation of wood coal, and of fossil things.

All the ebony ones did it (about 10 or more different top quality guitars I owned with ebony fingerboard), and my experienced luthier friend confirmed it....he was the one to say "Ebony is good furniture wood".