martin swan

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Posts posted by martin swan

  1. 26 minutes ago, Delabo said:

    Maybe the information I have is incorrect and the violin they have with an identical label to the OP's is also fake ?

    They believe that their violin represents a "Lupot Gand-Bernadel pattern".

    Did such a model ever exist ?

    I see no reason to conceal the link since it's on a public website

    That label is authentic, as is the violin, though it's in rather poor condition and has little of its original varnish. The number and the date are beautifully scripted and legible, and the label also doesn't have a black border.

    It doesn't look anything like the OP violin (though for some reason we haven't seen the front of that one), but entirely like the 1866 example I posted.


  2. 12 minutes ago, Delabo said:

    Maybe the information I have is incorrect and the violin they have with an identical label to the OP's is also fake ?

    They believe that their violin represents a "Lupot Gand-Bernadel pattern".

    Did such a model ever exist ?

    Maybe you need to share your pretty convincing evidence?

  3. 14 minutes ago, fiddlecollector said:

    Martin some of the Gand & Bernardel  freres labels seem to have various black borders visible, look at the Tarisio articles about Lupot and his successors, the last number on the OP label is definitely a 5 and looks like the Freres label. That said its not like any violin from the G& B firm ive seen .

    I wasn't aware of that - good to know. I tried to find the article you mention on Cozio - do you have a link to it?

    I still don't believe this is a genuine label. We've had several Gand & Bernardels and the handwritten numbers have always been legible and italic!

    Here's a G&B Freres label from the second empire :




  4. If you're on first name terms with Isaac, why nor buy your bow from him? You would get something in perfect condition with a guarantee of authenticity and you wouldn't have to consult with the Maestronet family :D

  5. 1 hour ago, matesic said:

    To my eyes the pattern of dirt on the label looks convincingly similar to that on the wood. 

    Perhaps the fake label is the same age as the violin. Authentic G&B labels don't have a black border so it's not even as if this is a genuine label put into a different violin

    Doesn't it say 1898? Gand & Bernardel ceased trading in 1892 ... and the Second Empire ended in 1872.

  6. 4 minutes ago, Michael Darnton said:

    A local player had/has a very fine ancient cello that is like that one at the upper block; I don't remember if it's a composite or an issue with cutting down, but it works fine. :-)

    One of the more memorable violins I've seen in this regard was an Alfred Smith (Australian) that was considerably thicker in the c-bouts than at either end to the extent where it was easily visible from a distance. It was a SCREAMER. But I don't know how much of that could be attributed to the strange construction. It would be fun to try, but I haven't.

    I don't suppose it was late 18th century French? I have seen a couple of experimental violins by Salomon and Lepileur that were like that all round - kind of a 3/4 size back and a full size front.

    Hardly a concept that a modern maker should be able to patent ...

  7. 16 minutes ago, sospiri said:

    I'm sorry, but the aesthetic consideration doesn't satisfy me, because the plate is bent down. Why?

    Why is a bow cambered? Isn't the same springing effect going to apply to this issue too?

    It's easier to taper from the upper blocks to the top block than it is to taper the entire rib assembly.

    So maybe the bending stress is just a by-product - something that wasn't considered a big deal. We certainly have no evidence that it enhances the sound. 

  8. 2 minutes ago, bsharma8 said:

    even with the imperfect F holes and arching? I figured the poplar back wouldve lowered the value since its not too favorable with many violinists. I believe the violin was part of an estate auction. I was quoted $5K. Now I am intrigued...

    You're not really listening ...

    A poplar back would not be a factor in valuation but is this really the work of a mainstream professional maker? And what would a regular dealer be doing selling an authentic one for $5k when they could make 5 times that? I don't suppose it has any kind of certificate?

  9. 31 minutes ago, Dani Tsui said:


    I own a Luigi Bertelli ( grandfather), and it is exactly like the this.

    It has been certified by his grandson, whose name is also Luigi Bertelli ( the son of Enzo), and is one of the greatest vioin makers in Brazil.

    The only difference is that mine has a maple back.

    Varnish is characteristic.



    Hi Dani!

    Do you have photos of your violin? It would be great to get a bit more familiar with this maker.

  10. 2 hours ago, Delabo said:

    A quick google shows that not much is known about the maker, but I guess you already did that.



    A quick google won't tell you anything much about anything, and what it will tell you is not worth knowing ...

    Luigi Bertelli was a professional maker, and father to the rather better known Enzo Bertelli. The entry in Vannes included in the OP's picture tells you a good deal.

    I don't know this maker personally. While the edgework and the scroll (and the poplar back) look Italian, I find the f-holes pretty crude (particularly the lower tongues) and I'm disconcerted by the bump in the arching just outside the lower portion of the f-holes, which I would associate with a rapidly made trade instrument.

    But hey, a lot of Italian violins are pretty rubbish and still people must have them in preference to far better non-Italian instruments.


  11. Yes they have all certainly been gravitating towards the US recently!

    I spoke with a violin hunter colleague of mine in Germany, he also attests to these violins being very plentiful in Germany. We discussed the Enrico Robella label and whether that might be specifically American, but the only examples either of us had bought came from Germany too ... :D

    Oscar Meinel may be a US label ... never seen one this side of the pond.


  12. With regard to the first point, it has a certificate from the seller, so one would hope so - you might ask to see the wording.

    With regard to the second, what are you looking for? I can't imagine ever buying a bow without trying it, but this is a "no return" sale so you can't do that. It's like rolling the dice when you have to get a double 6 ...